New to 4, pretty good at 3

[postalbyke]

I recently purchased SH4 to see if my computer would run it, and didn't buy the u boat expansion (in case it didn't run...)

So now I can run it, but I'm very used to MaguiF for sh3, and find the keyboard controls and "TDC" difficult to manage.
So! I would deeply appreciate some recommendations for a new GUI, and a pointer to a good stock American TDC tutorial.

Thank you.

[CCIP]

Actually you should get the Uboat expansion. Most of the mods are for v1.5, which you can only have with the expansion installed. You will have a tough time building a stable modded game without the expansion.

I highly recommend you check out one of the supermods - RFB (Real Fleet Boat), TMO (Trigger Maru Overhaul) or FOTRS (Fall of the Rising Sun) if you're interested in the US side, and OM (Operation Monsun) if you're interested in U-boats. All of them include certain interface changes (for better).

[I'm goin' down]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Actually you should get the Uboat expansion. Most of the mods are for v1.5, which you can only have with the expansion installed. You will have a tough time building a stable modded game without the expansion.

very good recommendation. You won't be disappointed.

Read Hitman's tutorial re Manual Targeting at 100% Realism. This will teach you everyting you need to know. Its link is the Popular Mods, etc. sticky thread posted by Neal Stevens in the Mods Forum. You will need to work through some examples with a pen and paper.

Also, downlaod the Easy Aob mod, as it makes manual targeting easier.

Once you get the correct speed, Aob and Range, the TDC will track the target unless it changes course or speed. You activate the TDC with the PK.

You might want to check out the Dick O'Kane method for broadside attacks where you do not activate the PK.

[Platapus]

I too found using the TDC in Sh4 to be harder than in SH3. Not that the technique is that much different, but in SH3, it seems like I could do set ups a lot faster.

I echo getting 1.5 It really can't be considered an add-on but more a required patch. The good thing is that 1.5 is pretty cheap these days.

I would spend some time with stock 1.5 to get the feel for the game and the interface. That will put in you a much better position to start selecting from the approximately one billion mods that are out there.

Good luck with it. I had a pretty steep playing curve coming from 3 to 4, but I am happy I stuck with it.

[Gerald]

^ Keep up the good work,

[I'm goin' down]

Originally Posted by Platapus

I would spend some time with stock 1.5 to get the feel for the game and the interface. That will put in you a much better position to start selecting from the approximately one billion mods that are out there.

GFO (Game Fixes Only) supermod by Webster is designed for stock, and is designed for the the adding of various mods. It gives you a lot of flexibility before you decide on RFB, FOTRS and TMO.

[I'm goin' down]

Originally Posted by Platapus

I would spend some time with stock 1.5 to get the feel for the game and the interface. That will put in you a much better position to start selecting from the approximately one billion mods that are out there.

GFO (Game Fixes Only) supermod by Webster is designed for stock, and is designed for the the adding of various mods. It gives you a lot of flexibility before you try RFB, FOTRS and TMO.

[Platapus]

Good advice
is worth posting twice.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Glad that cards working out for you!

[Renesco]

I'm in the same boat (pun intended) played through sh3 many many times to the end but cannot bring myself to like sh4 for some reason, one thing I don't like is the default camera view for external view, is there some way to make that close to the submarine by default? I know it might sound like a weird thing to get upset about but It's annoying me a lot when I want to see outside, press , or . and the camera position is way too far for me to make out the sub underwater so I lose perspective of direction.

At the moment I've only stock sh4 not sure if it's worth it getting uboat add-on seeing as the game has not impressed me so far except for the shift rotation feature which is nice, and the graphics (is there some way to give sh3 the graphics of sh4?)

I think I'll have to do a lot of messing with .cfg files like I do with sh3 to get everything right, even so sh3 seems like a far better game.

edit: on closer inspection, in basic.cfg the submarines are still labelled as they are in sh3, they didn't even bother to change them in the cfg files, how do i tell which boat is which?

[Andrew82]

Originally Posted by Renesco

I'm in the same boat (pun intended) played through sh3 many many times to the end but cannot bring myself to like sh4 for some reason, one thing I don't like is the default camera view for external view, is there some way to make that close to the submarine by default? I know it might sound like a weird thing to get upset about but It's annoying me a lot when I want to see outside, press , or . and the camera position is way too far for me to make out the sub underwater so I lose perspective of direction.

At the moment I've only stock sh4 not sure if it's worth it getting uboat add-on seeing as the game has not impressed me so far except for the shift rotation feature which is nice, and the graphics (is there some way to give sh3 the graphics of sh4?)

I think I'll have to do a lot of messing with .cfg files like I do with sh3 to get everything right, even so sh3 seems like a far better game.

edit: on closer inspection, in basic.cfg the submarines are still labelled as they are in sh3, they didn't even bother to change them in the cfg files, how do i tell which boat is which?

In external view, you can move the cam around with the mouse and the arrow keys.

I think you'd appreciate SH4 more with some mods installed like RFB or TMO.

[Rockin Robbins]

You'll find that while you're thinking in U-Boat, using constant bearing attack methods will feel familiar, while acquainting you with the differences between the U-Boat TDC and the American TDC. Check out the Dick O'Kane method from the Sub Skippers' Bag of Tricks thread linked in my signature. You'll begin sinking targets immediately.

Then familiarize yourself with the differences between the TDCs. The American TDC is not hooked directly up to the periscope, as so does not automatically update the AoB as you aim. That might seem like a disadvantage, but it was done for a reason.

Built into the American TDC was an auxiliary device known as the position keeper (PK). The PK took the target parameters, target speed, bearing and course and combined it with your own changing speed, bearing and position to keep a present prediction of target position and torpedo settings necessary to hit the target so long as the target did not change course and speed.

What's the advantage of that, you say? Let's set up the attack from a distance, get the PK in nice agreement with reality. Then submerge, move in closer and fire the torpedoes without ever surfacing or raising the periscope again! That is called stealth.

You do give up some spontaneity to achieve this. But Americans thought that was more than offset by the capability of shooting blind and the ability to test firing solutions before wasting the torpedoes.

In spite of that hit percentages were slightly higher for the Germans than the Americans. I think a lot of that could be attributed to the greater experience of U-Boat captains compared to the average experience of American captains.

The TDCs are like learning a language. If you're thinking in German TDC you will have a problem working the American TDC. To be fluent in American, you have to be familiar enough to think in American. It takes time and it can be frustrating for someone who is used to being very good with a submarine.

[Arlo]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

The TDCs are like learning a language. If you're thinking in German TDC you will have a problem working the American TDC. To be fluent in American, you have to be familiar enough to think in American. It takes time and it can be frustrating for someone who is used to being very good with a submarine.

Then there's the added complexity of thinking in Texan and, believe you me, that can make for some interesting complications.

(You're a pleasure to read on theis forum RR.)

[Bubblehead1980]

I believe once someone learns the US TDC they will find it superior.Like the crappy original SH 4 manual says(but was accurate) the big advantage US TDC had compared to other nations was the Position Keeper(PK)

Quick example:Say you have a target moving towards you from the port side, enter speed, bearing/range and AOB, then activate the PK.Dive to 100 feet and watch the situation change.You may have had a target at 5000 yards, 20 degree AOB making 9 knots(assuming the data you entered is correct and no changes) you can watch the AOB change to 70 at 1200 yards as you and the target move closer.Pop back up to scope depth, check it and fire or wait for the perfect 90.Or say you have a good set up but an escort will be on top of you and detect you ruining your shot or you have a shot but need a few more seconds but escort is rushing in ready to drop on you while you at at 60 scope depth, take a final bearing, you can dive and fire knowing the PK is keeping the info updated and you will most likely get a hit.I've had to do this a few times, its great.

When I play the german side and do not have this big advantage, well it is a pain.

[Daniel Prates]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Actually you should get the Uboat expansion. Most of the mods are for v1.5, which you can only have with the expansion installed.

Yep man, 1.5 (u-boat missions) is essential.