High ranking German general admits military failure in Afghanistan

Skybird · 10-07-11, 09:26 AM

Not really new for the healthy mind, but still:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...790539,00.html

Ten Years in Afghanistan

German General Says NATO Mission Has 'Failed'

A top German general who was instrumental in planning the Bundeswehr's mission in Afghanistan has said that the intervention has failed and the Taliban will regain power within months of withdrawal. Ten years after the invasion, he is far from alone with his critique.
It was 10 years ago that the United States, together with its NATO allies, marched into Afghanistan to put an end to Taliban rule and begin the hunt for al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden. A decade later, the terrorist leader is dead. But, says Harald Kujat, former general inspector of the German military, the mission has been a failure.
"The mission fulfilled the political aim of showing solidarity with the United States," Kujat told the German daily Mitteldeutsche Zeitung. "But if you measure progress against the goal of stabilizing a country and a region, then the mission has failed."
Kujat said that it was ignored for too long that "the opponent was fighting a military battle and we needed to do the same." In reference to claims from German political leaders, among others, he said "the argument that it was a stabilization mission was maintained for too long." The result, he said, is that soldiers were not given what they needed in order to effectively fight the enemy.
Kujat is hardly the first to criticize the Afghanistan war. But his words carry weight in Germany. He was a leading planner of the German mission to Afghanistan and served as general inspector of the German military -- the Bundeswehr's highest-ranking soldier -- from 2000 to 2002. Part of his job included advising both the German government and the Defense Ministry on military matters.
Timeline for Withdrawal
The former Bundeswehr leader also took aim at Germany's plan to complete withdrawal of all of its 5,000 combat troops from Afghanistan by 2014, a timeline that was reiterated on Friday by Germany's special representative for Afghanistan, Michael Steiner.
"If we withdraw from Afghanistan in 2014," said Kujat, "then the Taliban will take over power again within just a few months."
Steiner declined to name a date for the beginning of Germany's withdrawal from Afghanistan, but the government of Chancellor Angela Merkel has said it aims at beginning the pullout by the end of 2011, conditions permitting. Steiner said that a plan would be presented by the end of the year.
The withdrawal of NATO forces from Afghanistan was a major topic at a meeting of NATO defense ministers in Brussels on Thursday. NATO chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen of Denmark said that, even after 2014, the alliance would focus heavily on training the Afghan military.
Kujat isn't the only heavyweight critic of the Afghanistan mission to have spoken out in recent days. Speaking in Washington at an event organized by the think tank Council on Foreign Relations, Stanley McChrystal, who led the Afghanistan troop increase ordered by President Barack Obama in 2009, said that the US had a "frighteningly simplistic" view of Afghanistan when the war began. He also said that the US and NATO were only "50 percent of the way" toward achieving the goals they had set for themselves.
Pressuring Pakistan
"We didn't know enough and we still don't know enough," McChrystal said. "Most of us, me included, had a very superficial understanding of the situation and history, and we had a frighteningly simplistic view of recent history, the last 50 years."
Obama on Thursday, increased pressure on neighboring Pakistan, saying that the Islamabad regime's connections with "unsavory characters" had put the country's relationship with the US at risk. Washington has long been urging Pakistan to cease supporting Islamist militant attacks inside Afghanistan, an effort which has been redoubled in the wake of the US killing of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan this spring.
Pakistan fired back on Friday. Salim Saifullah, chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee in Pakistan's Senate, told Reuters that "this is not helping either the US, Afghanistan or Pakistan. There will be pressure on the (Pakistani) government to get out of this war (on Islamist militancy)."

JU_88 · 10-07-11, 10:04 AM

Meh I thought everyone pretty much knew that already - since 2002 even.

TLAM Strike · 10-07-11, 10:22 AM

Failure will not be tolerated; send him to the Eastern Front!

Jimbuna · 10-07-11, 10:54 AM

Take the troops out of Afghanistan and invade Pakistan...oh yeah I can see that happening

Penguin · 10-07-11, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Failure will not be tolerated; send him to the Eastern Front!

Americans who fail get an even harsher punishment:

Platapus · 10-07-11, 01:03 PM

Since we never really had a clearly defined mission for AF, I guess we couldn't fail could we?

Did we spend a lot of money we didn't have? Check
Did we use this borrowed money to fund the Military Industrial Complex and indirectly politicians? Check
Did we kill a bunch of people we either did not like or care about? Check
Did we secure the TAP pipeline route? Check
Did we take a bunch of reservists and guard and put them on the federal payroll? Check
Did we continue to foster an environment of fear and distrust thereby distracting our citizens from our domestic problems? Check

So where is this failure?

MothBalls · 10-07-11, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

Since we never really had a clearly defined mission for AF, I guess we couldn't fail could we?

Did we spend a lot of money we didn't have? Check
Did we use this borrowed money to fund the Military Industrial Complex and indirectly politicians? Check
Did we kill a bunch of people we either did not like or care about? Check
Did we secure the TAP pipeline route? Check
Did we take a bunch of reservists and guard and put them on the federal payroll? Check
Did we continue to foster an environment of fear and distrust thereby distracting our citizens from our domestic problems? Check

So where is this failure?

Failed to hide the truths you stated above and failed make ourselves look like heroes that saved the world while doing it.

Alex · 10-07-11, 01:17 PM

Hahaha.

Skybird · 10-07-11, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Failure will not be tolerated; send him to the Eastern Front!

It already is the front east of us. The next even more Eastern front would be Pakistan, which is our friendly, trustworthy ally, so we do not need a friont there, but more love and understanding.

krashkart · 10-07-11, 01:29 PM

^^ lol Pakistan is really loving the US these days, aren't they?

I've always had this notion that the only way to win is to maintain a significant presence there while the country builds a new foundation. Apparently, nobody on the planning end of things had the presence of mind to think that far ahead before committing forces to the region. It's pointless to try to rebuild an anarchic state in ten or fifteen years without planning for another ten or fifteen years (or more).

Also, some thoughts from Stanley McChrystal on where things went wrong:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1..._n_999282.html

JU_88 · 10-07-11, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

It already is the front east of us. The next even more Eastern front would be Pakistan, which is our friendly, trustworthy ally, so we do not need a friont there, but more love and understanding.

Yes Pakistan have Nukes, so we have to be extra nice to them.

We dont really like to pick on countries that can punch back

Jimbuna · 10-07-11, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JU_88

Yes Pakistan have Nukes, so we have to be extra nice to them.

We dont really like to pick on countries that can punch back

Precisely!!

Skybird · 10-08-11, 05:00 AM

Ten years of Taliban-hunt

from: Der Tagesspiegel

10-07-11, 09:26 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	High ranking German general admits military failure in Afghanistan Not really new for the healthy mind, but still: http://www.spiegel.de/international/...790539,00.html Ten Years in Afghanistan German General Says NATO Mission Has 'Failed' A top German general who was instrumental in planning the Bundeswehr's mission in Afghanistan has said that the intervention has failed and the Taliban will regain power within months of withdrawal. Ten years after the invasion, he is far from alone with his critique. It was 10 years ago that the United States, together with its NATO allies, marched into Afghanistan to put an end to Taliban rule and begin the hunt for al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden. A decade later, the terrorist leader is dead. But, says Harald Kujat, former general inspector of the German military, the mission has been a failure. "The mission fulfilled the political aim of showing solidarity with the United States," Kujat told the German daily Mitteldeutsche Zeitung. "But if you measure progress against the goal of stabilizing a country and a region, then the mission has failed." Kujat said that it was ignored for too long that "the opponent was fighting a military battle and we needed to do the same." In reference to claims from German political leaders, among others, he said "the argument that it was a stabilization mission was maintained for too long." The result, he said, is that soldiers were not given what they needed in order to effectively fight the enemy. Kujat is hardly the first to criticize the Afghanistan war. But his words carry weight in Germany. He was a leading planner of the German mission to Afghanistan and served as general inspector of the German military -- the Bundeswehr's highest-ranking soldier -- from 2000 to 2002. Part of his job included advising both the German government and the Defense Ministry on military matters. Timeline for Withdrawal The former Bundeswehr leader also took aim at Germany's plan to complete withdrawal of all of its 5,000 combat troops from Afghanistan by 2014, a timeline that was reiterated on Friday by Germany's special representative for Afghanistan, Michael Steiner. "If we withdraw from Afghanistan in 2014," said Kujat, "then the Taliban will take over power again within just a few months." Steiner declined to name a date for the beginning of Germany's withdrawal from Afghanistan, but the government of Chancellor Angela Merkel has said it aims at beginning the pullout by the end of 2011, conditions permitting. Steiner said that a plan would be presented by the end of the year. The withdrawal of NATO forces from Afghanistan was a major topic at a meeting of NATO defense ministers in Brussels on Thursday. NATO chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen of Denmark said that, even after 2014, the alliance would focus heavily on training the Afghan military. Kujat isn't the only heavyweight critic of the Afghanistan mission to have spoken out in recent days. Speaking in Washington at an event organized by the think tank Council on Foreign Relations, Stanley McChrystal, who led the Afghanistan troop increase ordered by President Barack Obama in 2009, said that the US had a "frighteningly simplistic" view of Afghanistan when the war began. He also said that the US and NATO were only "50 percent of the way" toward achieving the goals they had set for themselves. Pressuring Pakistan "We didn't know enough and we still don't know enough," McChrystal said. "Most of us, me included, had a very superficial understanding of the situation and history, and we had a frighteningly simplistic view of recent history, the last 50 years." Obama on Thursday, increased pressure on neighboring Pakistan, saying that the Islamabad regime's connections with "unsavory characters" had put the country's relationship with the US at risk. Washington has long been urging Pakistan to cease supporting Islamist militant attacks inside Afghanistan, an effort which has been redoubled in the wake of the US killing of Osama bin Laden in Pakistan this spring. Pakistan fired back on Friday. Salim Saifullah, chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee in Pakistan's Senate, told Reuters that "this is not helping either the US, Afghanistan or Pakistan. There will be pressure on the (Pakistani) government to get out of this war (on Islamist militancy)." __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

10-07-11, 10:04 AM	#2
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,803 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Meh I thought everyone pretty much knew that already - since 2002 even. Last edited by JU_88; 10-07-11 at 10:35 AM.

10-07-11, 10:22 AM	#3
TLAM Strike Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 8,633 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 6	Failure will not be tolerated; send him to the Eastern Front! __________________

10-07-11, 10:54 AM	#4
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,461 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Take the troops out of Afghanistan and invade Pakistan...oh yeah I can see that happening __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

10-07-11, 01:03 PM	#6
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,360 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Since we never really had a clearly defined mission for AF, I guess we couldn't fail could we? Did we spend a lot of money we didn't have? Check Did we use this borrowed money to fund the Military Industrial Complex and indirectly politicians? Check Did we kill a bunch of people we either did not like or care about? Check Did we secure the TAP pipeline route? Check Did we take a bunch of reservists and guard and put them on the federal payroll? Check Did we continue to foster an environment of fear and distrust thereby distracting our citizens from our domestic problems? Check So where is this failure? __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

10-07-11, 01:17 PM	#8
Alex Dominant Wolf Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,143 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Hahaha. __________________

10-07-11, 01:29 PM	#10
krashkart Navy Seal Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 5,292 Downloads: 100 Uploads: 0	^^ lol Pakistan is really loving the US these days, aren't they? I've always had this notion that the only way to win is to maintain a significant presence there while the country builds a new foundation. Apparently, nobody on the planning end of things had the presence of mind to think that far ahead before committing forces to the region. It's pointless to try to rebuild an anarchic state in ten or fifteen years without planning for another ten or fifteen years (or more). Also, some thoughts from Stanley McChrystal on where things went wrong: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1..._n_999282.html __________________ sent from my fingertips using a cheap keyboard

10-08-11, 05:00 AM	#13
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Ten years of Taliban-hunt from: Der Tagesspiegel __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.