Hitler's Atlantic Wall: Should France preserve it?

Gerald · 09-13-11, 02:42 AM

Sections of Hitler's Atlantic Wall are being restored by French enthusiasts. But should the Nazi fortification be fully embraced as part of the country's heritage?

Along 800 miles (1,287km) of French coast lie some of the most substantial and evocative vestiges of war-time Europe.

The so-called Atlantic Wall - Hitler's defensive system against an expected Allied attack - stretched all the way from the Spanish border to Scandinavia.

Inevitably, it was in France that the most extensive building took place. Today there are still thousands of blockhouses, barracks and gun emplacements visible along the French shore.

But in France there has been no effort up until now to preserve this extraordinary historical landmark.

Elsewhere, World War II bunkers have been renovated as tourist attractions or for educational visits. The internet boasts Atlantic Wall fan sites in Germany and the Netherlands - and strong interest in the UK - but nothing in France.

It is as though the nation was relieved to see the German defences slide inexorably into the sands - and oblivion.

But now - quite suddenly - a new mood has emerged. Recently, several local associations dedicated to safeguarding portions of the Wall have been set up in France.

Times have moved on, memories of the war have lapsed, and a new generation no longer feels pain or guilt, but curiosity.

"It really has been very rapid. In just the last three or four years, there has been a radical change," says Marc Mentel, founder of Gramasa (Archaeological Research Group for the Atlantic Wall: Arcachon Sector).

"Today people are constantly coming up to us at our sites and wanting to know more about the Wall. In the past, the whole issue was too painful, it brought back too many bad memories.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10632543

Note: 13 September 2011 Last updated at 02:06 GMT

Hottentot · 09-13-11, 03:05 AM

An interesting question. The first and obvious answer that springs to my mind is: "of course history should be preserved! what kind of question is that?"

Then again, we are not talking just about history, we are talking about an investment. Investments cost time and money, which are both finite. If it is preserved, someone has to preserve it. Someone has to pay for its upkeep, someone has to invest time in taking care of it.

And while it's nice for us foreign tourists to come there, take photos with our fancy cameras and be all "Ooo, aaa" while staring it, we are still talking about the French heritage and French investment here. I can understand why some would rather use the time and money to preserve the French heritage instead of what an occupying country once build there.

Then again, preservering heritage is history, and history should not be just happy things. We can't just "erase" the part that the Atlantic wall represents, it just doesn't work that way in history. Personally I'd say, that a compromise would be ethically the best choice here. Preserve part of the wall in some vital place, but don't overdo it. Instead document the rest of it otherwise, with photos and with research for example.

Two cents from a heritage student.

Gerald · 09-13-11, 05:12 AM

Your conclusion has relevance, the French can of course keep what is left for the generations to understand what history means.

Jimbuna · 09-13-11, 05:21 AM

Yes

TarJak · 09-13-11, 05:45 AM

Oui!

Anthony W. · 09-13-11, 05:48 AM

This shouldn't even be a question. To save the future we must preserve our past - no matter how bad it may have been.

Hottentot · 09-13-11, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony W.

This shouldn't even be a question.

On the contrary it should be and is a question that any museum or other heritage preserving organization faces as soon as its existence begins. We can't save everything. And I'm not even talking about huge monuments such as these, but small, ordinary things from the past. Things that don't require much space and maintanance, whereas heritage such as this takes incredible investment to be preserved even partially.

Also, not preserving something does not mean forgetting it. There are other means to document something's existence than maintaining the thing itself. It's easy for us foreigners to say "preserve it" when we know that not a single Euro is being taken from us: they are taken from the French taxpayers and it's up to them to decide what part of their heritage they want to preserve. I'm sure a country with such a long history as France can think of many other things as well.

I repeat: in this field of work we must decide what we take and what we leave behind. That's a sad fact of life that is not answered by one liners.

JU_88 · 09-13-11, 07:15 AM

Yeah they should keep it.
Alot of history is dark and negative but its all still history, you cannot deny it happened. The wall represents so much more than just the Nazis resposible for its construction.

Hottentot · 09-13-11, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JU_88

Yeah they should keep it.
Alot of history is dark and negative but its all still history, you cannot deny it happened. The wall represents so much more than just the Nazis resposible for its construction.

While I agree that some things from the occupation period should be preserved as history, another question is why the Atlantic Wall? They already certainly have preserved artefacts and monuments of the period, it is not forgotten. What makes the Atlantic Wall so important that it should be included in the list? Especially seeing that other countries (as far as I understood) have already preserved parts of it: do we need one in every country?

Osmium Steele · 09-13-11, 07:37 AM

I see no reason to preserve large portions of the wall, but a portion of each landing beach defense and any cemetaries wouldn't be out of the question.

Herr-Berbunch · 09-13-11, 08:10 AM

We don't need one in every country, although that would be nice, but France had the largest share of it, and it's nice for them to finally show they have humility.

I'm sure that some euro-funding would find it's way to a large heritage project like this.

Reading that back it doesn't sound like I'm comlimenting the French, but I am.

danasan · 09-13-11, 08:25 AM

If you type "normandie atlanticwall today" in in google maps, you'll find some well preserved items, like the grand bunker, there is even a V1 still there.

I think it is good enough and necessary to keep these places in good condition. Why keep all the stuff? If not the tax payer is going to pay for that, it could only been paid by donations.

http://maps.google.de/maps?hl=de&q=a...ed=0CDAQ_AUoAg

nikimcbee · 09-13-11, 09:08 AM

Yes, you never know when Britian might invade.

kraznyi_oktjabr · 09-13-11, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

Yes, you never know when Britian might invade.

I thought you need a navy if you want to invade from sea...

momo55 · 09-13-11, 10:00 AM

A stone's throw from where I live, you'll find this lovely open-air museum......

http://www.euro-t-guide.com/See_Coun...Domain_1-1.htm

France must surely be able to offer similar projects to future generations.

09-13-11, 02:42 AM	#1
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Hitler's Atlantic Wall: Should France preserve it? Sections of Hitler's Atlantic Wall are being restored by French enthusiasts. But should the Nazi fortification be fully embraced as part of the country's heritage? Along 800 miles (1,287km) of French coast lie some of the most substantial and evocative vestiges of war-time Europe. The so-called Atlantic Wall - Hitler's defensive system against an expected Allied attack - stretched all the way from the Spanish border to Scandinavia. Inevitably, it was in France that the most extensive building took place. Today there are still thousands of blockhouses, barracks and gun emplacements visible along the French shore. But in France there has been no effort up until now to preserve this extraordinary historical landmark. Elsewhere, World War II bunkers have been renovated as tourist attractions or for educational visits. The internet boasts Atlantic Wall fan sites in Germany and the Netherlands - and strong interest in the UK - but nothing in France. It is as though the nation was relieved to see the German defences slide inexorably into the sands - and oblivion. But now - quite suddenly - a new mood has emerged. Recently, several local associations dedicated to safeguarding portions of the Wall have been set up in France. Times have moved on, memories of the war have lapsed, and a new generation no longer feels pain or guilt, but curiosity. "It really has been very rapid. In just the last three or four years, there has been a radical change," says Marc Mentel, founder of Gramasa (Archaeological Research Group for the Atlantic Wall: Arcachon Sector). "Today people are constantly coming up to us at our sites and wanting to know more about the Wall. In the past, the whole issue was too painful, it brought back too many bad memories. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10632543 Note: 13 September 2011 Last updated at 02:06 GMT __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

09-13-11, 03:05 AM	#2
Hottentot Sea Lord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: My private socialist utopia of Finland Posts: 1,918 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	An interesting question. The first and obvious answer that springs to my mind is: "of course history should be preserved! what kind of question is that?" Then again, we are not talking just about history, we are talking about an investment. Investments cost time and money, which are both finite. If it is preserved, someone has to preserve it. Someone has to pay for its upkeep, someone has to invest time in taking care of it. And while it's nice for us foreign tourists to come there, take photos with our fancy cameras and be all "Ooo, aaa" while staring it, we are still talking about the French heritage and French investment here. I can understand why some would rather use the time and money to preserve the French heritage instead of what an occupying country once build there. Then again, preservering heritage is history, and history should not be just happy things. We can't just "erase" the part that the Atlantic wall represents, it just doesn't work that way in history. Personally I'd say, that a compromise would be ethically the best choice here. Preserve part of the wall in some vital place, but don't overdo it. Instead document the rest of it otherwise, with photos and with research for example. Two cents from a heritage student. __________________ Хотели как лучше, а получилось как всегда.

09-13-11, 05:12 AM	#3
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Your conclusion has relevance, the French can of course keep what is left for the generations to understand what history means. __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

09-13-11, 05:21 AM	#4
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,473 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Yes __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

09-13-11, 05:48 AM	#6
Anthony W. Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 850 Downloads: 130 Uploads: 0	This shouldn't even be a question. To save the future we must preserve our past - no matter how bad it may have been. __________________ Sunken Mustangs Proud Ford Mustang owner "Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!" - Admiral David Farragut Run silent - run deep - keep the baffles clear - targets front and center. Private pilot and history buff

09-13-11, 05:45 AM	#5
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Oui!

09-13-11, 07:15 AM	#8
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,803 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Yeah they should keep it. Alot of history is dark and negative but its all still history, you cannot deny it happened. The wall represents so much more than just the Nazis resposible for its construction.

09-13-11, 07:37 AM	#10
Osmium Steele Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Upper midwest USA Posts: 1,101 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	I see no reason to preserve large portions of the wall, but a portion of each landing beach defense and any cemetaries wouldn't be out of the question. __________________ In the month of July of the year 1348, between the feasts of St. Benedict and of St. Swithin, a strange thing came upon England... My U297 build thread

09-13-11, 08:10 AM	#11
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	We don't need one in every country, although that would be nice, but France had the largest share of it, and it's nice for them to finally show they have humility. I'm sure that some euro-funding would find it's way to a large heritage project like this. Reading that back it doesn't sound like I'm comlimenting the French, but I am. __________________

09-13-11, 08:25 AM	#12
danasan Elite Spam Hunter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Flensburg / Germany Posts: 1,141 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	If you type "normandie atlanticwall today" in in google maps, you'll find some well preserved items, like the grand bunker, there is even a V1 still there. I think it is good enough and necessary to keep these places in good condition. Why keep all the stuff? If not the tax payer is going to pay for that, it could only been paid by donations. http://maps.google.de/maps?hl=de&q=a...ed=0CDAQ_AUoAg __________________ "I invite you to go inside this submergible hole in the water where you can nicely hide from destroyers." Last edited by danasan; 09-13-11 at 08:35 AM.

09-13-11, 09:08 AM	#13
nikimcbee Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Patroling the Slot. Posts: 17,952 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Yes, you never know when Britian might invade. __________________

09-13-11, 10:00 AM	#15
momo55 Frogman Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: belgium Posts: 297 Downloads: 125 Uploads: 0	A stone's throw from where I live, you'll find this lovely open-air museum...... http://www.euro-t-guide.com/See_Coun...Domain_1-1.htm France must surely be able to offer similar projects to future generations. __________________ Our greatest glory is not in never failing , but in rising up every time we fail .