The truth about "Curveball" (so they say)

Skybird · 08-28-11, 10:21 AM

Unfortunately, this again is one of those German articles that are very unlikely to ever see a translated version (only german newspaper running a dedicated international edition, is Der Spiegel, but this eassay here is by Die Welt).

http://www.welt.de/politik/specials/...ausloeste.html

Curveball is the codename for an Iraqi man who was questioned in the late 90s and early 00s by the German BND, regarding alleged biological weapon production and WMD in Iraq. The German intelligence service never put too much trust into him, and explicitly warned of using his claims - many of which were lies - as solid information, sionce they were completely unconfirmed by other sources. This was also told to the Americans who after 9/11 showed a sudden interest in Curveball's stories and raised intense pressure on Germany to behave extremely unusual, to put it mildly, by agreeing to show Curveball on TV and the government then should swear that it strictly believes Curveball and that he is absoutely confirmed and trustworthy. It is unusual, says the eassay, that a Western nation demands another nation to reveal its sources in public and even to compromise them in a show act that obviously was meant to put all responsibility on the Germans while at the same time Cuveball's fairy tales about mobile biolabs and claimed lethal accidents in bioweapon factories should be used to create "facts" for the american media market, to convince the public of the need of war.

Since then, and since the debacle that the Iraq adventure was has become obvious, America tries to blame the Germans for having suported a misled war and that the German even helped to rigger it, while at the same time they were dilletantic and incompetent to run their secret service. And this although insiders saw the German BND since the 60s to up the 00s as one of the best-connected and best-positioned Western human-intelligence-services in the Arab sphere, with better connections and sources than most other.

Ex-chief of the BND August Hanning now broke his silence and for the first time ever has told how events unfolded from his and the BNDs point of view. He also explcitly supports the claim that the German politicians of that time - in conformity whith what is known in historic records - have made again and again: it was not, like the US now claim since some years, that the BND has misled the CIA and put them on the road to wear, at least supported that developement, but in fact it was like I have said all the years: indeed the Germans have explicitly warned of going to war againmst Iraq, and the BND has warned the Amerians explicitly and repatedly that Curveball'S is not trustworthy, that his information remained to be unverified, and that they have been unable to confirm his stories.

It'S just that the CIA and the state department did not wish to hear that. And so it happened that Colin Powell held that famous pathtitc speech in which he held up a vial of "Anthrax"

and showed pics of mobile weapon labs - becasue the CIA poicked from Curveball'S lies what it wanted to hear, and delioberately ignored all German warnings over Curevball. the mission was not to act on the basis of facts. The mission was to convince the oublic - also in europe - of the need to go to war. And no lie helping in that was cheap enough as that it would not have been tried out.

Hannig says, that on the day the Americans asked out of the blue what the BND had in material over claimed ties between Al Quaeda and Saddam - none, since such ties are a conspiration theory until today - , he knew immediately they were attempting to construct excuses for a war against Iraq.

One and a half year later, it then took place. What remains from the story by the end of the day? The American claim that the Germans supported both in intel work and diplomacy America'S ride towards war, is just this: an unfounded claim. Poltiicians had spoken out very clearly against the war, and warned of it time and again. The BND had told the CIA and the state departement that they should not listen to Curvebll, and that Curveball for the BNND was nothing more than just some more crnaklin g in the backgroudn sdtatic noise, and that his claims remain to be unverified, unconfirmed, and untrustworthy. But at that time, America was far beyond listening to anyone. and so the war unfolded - with all predicted risks and warnings realising.

Curveball lives under a new name in Germany today, living with his wife and two kids on social wellfare. He admits that he lied back then. But he said he never imagined and never was hoping to explicitly help launching a war. All he wanted was to help damaging the regime.

Gerald · 08-28-11, 10:35 AM

"Curveball" or his real name,Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi...or nickname, which he had a number ... nothing strange in it,what is not directly derived from this, is that Western powers wanted to have as much information about ongoing operations as possible, and therefore he remained informant, which was not met with approval in all eyes, but favored some countries in some sensitive cases, so he became a tool for countries intel.

Skybird · 08-28-11, 10:50 AM

The point is that "Western powers" wanting to use Curveball - were the US alone, and the German intel service did not take Curveball as a serious informant and rated his as untrustworthy, maintaining contact with him only for "just in case that". The Americans have been explicitly warned by the Germans to not use Curveball, they have been told right to the face that the BND does not see Cuveball as a reliable source, and that his stories were unconfirmed and suspicious and should not be taken as trustworthy "information".

But in back years, it has become a habit that Ameica accuses Germany of having fed them false intel information, and that the Germans were actively helpoing in going to war. This is a lie to distract from the american responsibility for the war, putting part of the blame on Germany, and "Curveball". But the BND told the CIA and the state department for the better, loud and clear. And America - did not wish to listen, instead continued fabricating lies, even trying to bully Germany into conspiracy.

This is the only point to make here.

Gerald · 08-28-11, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

The point is that "Western powers" wanting to use Curveball - were the US alone, and the German intel service did not take Curveball as a serious informant and rated his as untrustworthy, maintaining contact with him only for "just in case that". The Americans have been explicitly warned by the Germans to not use Curveball, they have been told right to the face that the BND does not see Cuveball as a reliable source, and that his stories were unconfirmed and suspicious and should not be taken as trustworthy "information".

But in back years, it has become a habit that Ameica accuses Germany of having fed them false intel information, and that the Germans were actively helpoing in going to war. This is a lie to distract from the american responsibility for the war, putting part of the blame on Germany, and "Curveball". But the BND told the CIA and the state department for the better, loud and clear. And America - did not wish to listen, instead continued fabricating lies, even trying to bully Germany into conspiracy.

This is the only point to make here.

True words!

08-28-11, 10:21 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The truth about "Curveball" (so they say) Unfortunately, this again is one of those German articles that are very unlikely to ever see a translated version (only german newspaper running a dedicated international edition, is Der Spiegel, but this eassay here is by Die Welt). http://www.welt.de/politik/specials/...ausloeste.html Curveball is the codename for an Iraqi man who was questioned in the late 90s and early 00s by the German BND, regarding alleged biological weapon production and WMD in Iraq. The German intelligence service never put too much trust into him, and explicitly warned of using his claims - many of which were lies - as solid information, sionce they were completely unconfirmed by other sources. This was also told to the Americans who after 9/11 showed a sudden interest in Curveball's stories and raised intense pressure on Germany to behave extremely unusual, to put it mildly, by agreeing to show Curveball on TV and the government then should swear that it strictly believes Curveball and that he is absoutely confirmed and trustworthy. It is unusual, says the eassay, that a Western nation demands another nation to reveal its sources in public and even to compromise them in a show act that obviously was meant to put all responsibility on the Germans while at the same time Cuveball's fairy tales about mobile biolabs and claimed lethal accidents in bioweapon factories should be used to create "facts" for the american media market, to convince the public of the need of war. Since then, and since the debacle that the Iraq adventure was has become obvious, America tries to blame the Germans for having suported a misled war and that the German even helped to rigger it, while at the same time they were dilletantic and incompetent to run their secret service. And this although insiders saw the German BND since the 60s to up the 00s as one of the best-connected and best-positioned Western human-intelligence-services in the Arab sphere, with better connections and sources than most other. Ex-chief of the BND August Hanning now broke his silence and for the first time ever has told how events unfolded from his and the BNDs point of view. He also explcitly supports the claim that the German politicians of that time - in conformity whith what is known in historic records - have made again and again: it was not, like the US now claim since some years, that the BND has misled the CIA and put them on the road to wear, at least supported that developement, but in fact it was like I have said all the years: indeed the Germans have explicitly warned of going to war againmst Iraq, and the BND has warned the Amerians explicitly and repatedly that Curveball'S is not trustworthy, that his information remained to be unverified, and that they have been unable to confirm his stories. It'S just that the CIA and the state department did not wish to hear that. And so it happened that Colin Powell held that famous pathtitc speech in which he held up a vial of "Anthrax" and showed pics of mobile weapon labs - becasue the CIA poicked from Curveball'S lies what it wanted to hear, and delioberately ignored all German warnings over Curevball. the mission was not to act on the basis of facts. The mission was to convince the oublic - also in europe - of the need to go to war. And no lie helping in that was cheap enough as that it would not have been tried out. Hannig says, that on the day the Americans asked out of the blue what the BND had in material over claimed ties between Al Quaeda and Saddam - none, since such ties are a conspiration theory until today - , he knew immediately they were attempting to construct excuses for a war against Iraq. One and a half year later, it then took place. What remains from the story by the end of the day? The American claim that the Germans supported both in intel work and diplomacy America'S ride towards war, is just this: an unfounded claim. Poltiicians had spoken out very clearly against the war, and warned of it time and again. The BND had told the CIA and the state departement that they should not listen to Curvebll, and that Curveball for the BNND was nothing more than just some more crnaklin g in the backgroudn sdtatic noise, and that his claims remain to be unverified, unconfirmed, and untrustworthy. But at that time, America was far beyond listening to anyone. and so the war unfolded - with all predicted risks and warnings realising. Curveball lives under a new name in Germany today, living with his wife and two kids on social wellfare. He admits that he lied back then. But he said he never imagined and never was hoping to explicitly help launching a war. All he wanted was to help damaging the regime. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

08-28-11, 10:35 AM	#2
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	"Curveball" or his real name,Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi...or nickname, which he had a number ... nothing strange in it,what is not directly derived from this, is that Western powers wanted to have as much information about ongoing operations as possible, and therefore he remained informant, which was not met with approval in all eyes, but favored some countries in some sensitive cases, so he became a tool for countries intel. __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

08-28-11, 10:50 AM	#3
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The point is that "Western powers" wanting to use Curveball - were the US alone, and the German intel service did not take Curveball as a serious informant and rated his as untrustworthy, maintaining contact with him only for "just in case that". The Americans have been explicitly warned by the Germans to not use Curveball, they have been told right to the face that the BND does not see Cuveball as a reliable source, and that his stories were unconfirmed and suspicious and should not be taken as trustworthy "information". But in back years, it has become a habit that Ameica accuses Germany of having fed them false intel information, and that the Germans were actively helpoing in going to war. This is a lie to distract from the american responsibility for the war, putting part of the blame on Germany, and "Curveball". But the BND told the CIA and the state department for the better, loud and clear. And America - did not wish to listen, instead continued fabricating lies, even trying to bully Germany into conspiracy. This is the only point to make here. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.