Global stockmarkets continue to slide

[Gerald]

European and US shares have fallen sharply as concerns grow about eurozone debt levels and the general health of the global economy.

The main share index in Frankfurt was down 3.5%, while indexes in London and Paris dropped by about 2.5%.

In New York, stocks fell 1.2% after the release of disappointing US service sector data.

Meanwhile, the price of gold, seen as a safe investment in times of economic uncertainty, hit a new record high.

The precious metal touched $1,669 an ounce in early trading.

The Swiss National Bank also lowered its target for inter-bank lending in an attempt to lower demand for the Swiss franc, which is also seen as a safe investment and has risen sharply in recent weeks.
Cheaper oil

US markets opened lower after figures from the Institute of Supply Management suggested the country's service sector grew at its slowest pace in 17 months in July.

Separate figures from the Commerce Department showing factory orders falling in the same month contributed to the market gloom.

Oil prices also fell, with US light crude easing 88 cents to $92.91 a barrel and Brent crude dropping $1.61 to $114.85.

Earlier, Asian markets had closed lower, with Japan's Nikkei closing down 2.1% and Hong Kong's Hang Seng down 1.9%.

Government bond yields in Spain and Italy also rose, indicating a rise in the risk associated with lending to the two countries.

Figures also released on Wednesday suggested a slowdown in growth in the eurozone services sector.

The closely-watched Markit Services PMI index fell to a near two-year low of 51.6 in July, down from 53.7 in June. Any score above 50 indicates expansion.
Shifting focus

US lawmakers managed to avoid a debt default on Tuesday by raising the debt ceiling. However, analysts say there has been a sharp change in global focus from the US debt issues.

"Disappointing economic data on both sides of the Atlantic, as well as surging Italian and Spanish bond yields, has seen risk appetite plummet as pessimism about the global recovery starts to take hold with a vengeance," said Michael Hewson at CMC Markets in London.

Koichi Ono from Daiwa Securities Capital Markets in Tokyo said: "I think the conditions have completely changed this week.

"Until last week, people have been saying the US debt ceiling was the problem. Now they talk about worries about the health of the economy."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14383704

Note: 3 August 2011 Last updated at 15:21 GMT

[the_tyrant]

let just hope you don't have your life savings in the stock market

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

let just hope you don't have your life savings in the stock market

A majority % of mine are and I can honestly say they are doing a lot better than anything I could achieve with fixed interest rates.

They also come with a guarantee of no loss of capital investment if you tie yourself into a 5 year term.

You want to see proof?.....PM me.

[Growler]

Anyone got an ounce of gold or two I could "borrow"?

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Growler

Anyone got an ounce of gold or two I could "borrow"?

I can lend you a kilo or two provided you promise not to damage or scratch it

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

A majority % of mine are and I can honestly say they are doing a lot better than anything I could achieve with fixed interest rates.

They also come with a guarantee of no loss of capital investment if you tie yourself into a 5 year term.

You want to see proof?.....PM me.

Be careful. "Guarantees" of no-loss-safety only work as long as not too much damage haunt the system simulatenously. But if too much of the business collapses, the guarantee will not help you. It is an open secret that such inbuild "guarantees" on existing insurrances and fonds investements accumulate to a total number that are not backed by financial liquidity of banks and investement companies.

Sorry for my inadequate wording, but this needs a lot of business-English terms - and since I never was busy in business-English, I lack this kind of vocabulary, and risk to mix up those terms that I know.

What it comes dopwn to, is this: like a ship is assumed to not sink as long as not more than so and so much percent of its inspace gets flooded, guarantees like you referred to only will work as long as not too many bad things happen within too short time.

If it all should ever collapse, the only things of real value will be real property: land, gold, jewelry, maybe precious and rare collector's items like watches, wine; this kind of stuff.

The financial system itself I understand to be a snowball system. It only works as long as people will to invest even more into it. But there is no real option to get out - it is as if for everybody leaving, two new victims entering must be found, else collapse sooner or later is inevitable. It is impossible that this recipe could work forever.

[Jimbuna]

I'm honestly quite happy with my investment Sky

If it all should ever collapse, the only things of real value will be real property: land, gold, jewelry, maybe precious and rare collector's items like watches, wine; this kind of stuff.

The only things of real value will be whatever people want at that particlar moment which is exactly the same as it is now

[MothBalls]

Originally Posted by Skybird

If it all should ever collapse, the only things of real value will be real property: land, gold, jewelry, maybe precious and rare collector's items like watches, wine; this kind of stuff.

You got one right, property, but only if it has animals on it.

If it all collapses the only things of value will be weapons, ammo, bows, arrows, knives, places to hunt, fish, and drink water. Not to worried about it. 98% of the population in large cities couldn't survive 3 days without toilet paper. The only people who will survive the total collapse are those with the skills to live off of the land <edit> and defend themselves from those who can't.

[TorpX]

Honestly, after the "deal" our Congress of Idiots made, I'm surprised that the markets didn't slide more.

[August]

Originally Posted by MothBalls

...and defend themselves from those who can't.

That part may be quite difficult depending on their proximity to nearby population centers.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Skybird

If it all should ever collapse, the only things of real value will be real property: land, gold, jewelry, maybe precious and rare collector's items like watches, wine; this kind of stuff.

If there is a wide spread collapse, none of that, other than land, will have any value. Certainty not gold. Gold has no intrinsic value. Gold is only valuable because people agree to its value. In a catastrophic collapse, all deals are null and void.

If I have a 14 pound bar of gold and am very hungry and you have a loaf of bread, exactly how much is my gold worth? If I am lucky you will sell me half your loaf for my gold. The more hungry I am, the more attractive the deal will be.

Gold is only valuable if there is a limited collapse. Say the EU has a huge financial collapse, I might be able to take my gold to South America and exchange it. The problem is that since the world's economy is so linked, the chances of a catastrophic local collapse while the other economies are still functioning is becoming lower.

I have an open offer for all the gold hoarders out there. When the world wide collapse comes, I will be glad to sell you my food for your gold... at the going rate.

[Armistead]

Like the lady that wheeled in her barrel of money for a loaf of bread, they took the wheelbarrow.

I think we're headed for some rough times in the next few years. The problem with a global economy corporations stop working for the nations they belong.

[the_tyrant]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

A majority % of mine are and I can honestly say they are doing a lot better than anything I could achieve with fixed interest rates.

They also come with a guarantee of no loss of capital investment if you tie yourself into a 5 year term.

You want to see proof?.....PM me.

ahh good for you
no need to see the proof though, I'm not a Nigerian prince, I don't need your financial data

the market is still doing badly though:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14410184

New York's Dow Jones index was trading more than 3% down, while Frankfurt's Dax and London's FTSE 100 indexes closed almost 3.5% lower.

European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso's warning that the sovereign debt crisis is spreading spooked the markets.

Meanwhile, the price of gold hit a new record high of $1,677 an ounce.

[STEED]

It's all going to hell, lock & load.