Qaddafi Forces Fire Cluster Bombs Into Civilian Areas

[Gerald]

MISURATA, Libya — Military forces loyal to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, who have surrounded this city and vowed to crush its anti-Qaddafi rebellion, have been firing into residential neighborhoods with heavy weapons, including cluster bombs that have been banned by much of the world and ground-to-ground rockets, according to the accounts of witnesses and survivors and physical evidence on the ground.

Such “indiscriminate” weapons, which strike large areas with a dense succession of high-explosive munitions, by their nature cannot be fired precisely, and when fired into populated areas place civilians at grave risk.

The use of such weapons could add urgency to the arguments by some countries in NATO, principally Britain and France, that the alliance needs to step up attacks on the Qaddafi forces, to better fulfill the United Nations mandate to protect civilians. And it could place pressure on the United States, which pulled back air power from the war when it ceded control of the campaign to NATO earlier this month.

When asked about the weaponry at a news conference in Berlin, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said she was “not aware” of the specific use of cluster munitions in Misurata, but said, “I’m not surprised by anything that Colonel Qadaffi and his forces do.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/16/wo...6libya.html?hp


Note: April 15, 2011

[Gerald]

Cluster Bombs,bad news

[TorpX]

Cluster bombs.

With our great leader Obama and NATO leading a humanitariam mission, what could go wrong?

[MH]

Now thats really makes him outlaw.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Aw, damnit. This is precisely what I was worried about last time we had this discussion. We let the rag-tag rebels dictate the pace of operations and now they've gone and advanced at such a tepid pace that Qadaffi is still around to order these kinds of retaliatory strikes. Goddamn Islamic rebels. Why can't they be more like rebels that aren't stupid and cowardly? I should have expected as much after seeing those worthless SOBs in action.

I hope NATO has warships with really good fire-finder radars so they can put those launchers down before they cause any more damage.

[MH]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

Aw, damnit. This is precisely what I was worried about last time we had this discussion. We let the rag-tag rebels dictate the pace of operations and now they've gone and advanced at such a tepid pace that Qadaffi is still around to order these kinds of retaliatory strikes. Goddamn Islamic rebels. Why can't they be more like rebels that aren't stupid and cowardly? I should have expected as much after seeing those worthless SOBs in action.

I hope NATO has warships with really good fire-finder radars so they can put those launchers down before they cause any more damage.

Thats new age politictly correct war.
Let peaple get killed slowly in small groups its easer to swallow.

[Skybird]

Wait wait, German foreign carricature Guido Westerwelle has the solution: he said that a political solution is needed! That would end the use of cluster bombs!

One observation: when NATO needlessly took over all command from the french and British, the pace aof the air campagin immediately slowed down, giving Gaddafi's forces the time and opportunity to take a break, have a deep breathe, reorganise, rethink their tactics and change them, use pickups instead of tanks, and then striking back with more force than before. In order to have Guido the Great's political solution, the Gaddafi side must remain intact, else you have no negotiation partner.

Mann, ist der clever, unser Guido!

The 1 million dollar question now is: what is NATO doing different, and why? Could it be that some political experts and concerned Gutmenschen, if not even some idiots willing to leave Gaddafi in power, have messed it up ONCE AGAIN?

However, German media reported that refugees from Lybia reported that rebels have executed randomply civilians in the streets, by beheading. After a rebel commander'S confession that he has Al Quaeda fighters under his command some time agao, this is the second hint that maybe we have no reason to be uncertain about the nature of the rebel forces anymore(with this uncertainty - and chance for somebody better coming to power - having been my only argtument to support the air strikes being launched). I also miss any signal or vision coming from the rebel side what they wish to install after the regime, and what their poltical goals and tools will be.

In other words, as I havew said from, beginning on, I take into account that maybe I will need to u-turn on this issue indeed. But as long as we have not been are not fully clear about the rebels, I still think it was worth to take the chance.

[Gerald]

Abdullah, a doctor in Misrata, told the BBC he had seen evidence of the use of cluster bombs

Pro-government forces in Libya have been accused by a human rights campaign group of using cluster bombs, which are banned by more than 100 countries.

Human Rights Watch said one of its photographers saw three mortar-launched projectiles explode over a residential area of Misrata.

A Libyan government spokesman denied the allegation.

Government troops have intensified their siege of Misrata, the only western Libyan city still in rebel hands.

The BBC's Orla Guerin reports from inside the battle-scarred city that local residents fear a massacre without greater action by Nato air forces to break the siege.

As well as cluster munitions there have been a number of reports that Libyan forces are using the Soviet-designed Grad rocket system in their bombardment of Misrata.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13102328


Note: Update Record,16 April 2011 Last updated at 07:49 GMT

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by TorpX

Cluster bombs.

With our great leader Obama and NATO leading a humanitariam mission, what could go wrong?

civilian populations hardest hit, as always, unfortunately, but that Muammar el-Qaddafi must be eliminated is no doubt

[Jimbuna]

And so it goes on and on and on

[Gerald]

He knows that his time will come, and there are ways to get rid of this man.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by MH

Now thats really makes him outlaw.

You are aware that the United States still refuses to sign the Convention on Cluster Munitions.

We are the last people to criticize.

[MH]

Originally Posted by Platapus

You are aware that the United States still refuses to sign the Convention on Cluster Munitions.

We are the last people to criticize.

From my point of vew all those conventions are as usefull as signing convention for using paintball guns instead of real bullets.
Its just populistic bull.
The only way to ensure not using any sort of weapon in time of war is the fear of retaliation or having good or more effective replacment for baned weapon.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by MH

From my point of vew all those conventions are as usefull as signing convention for using paintball guns instead of real bullets.
Its just populistic bull.
The only way to ensure not using any sort of weapon in time of war is the fear of retaliation or having good or more effective replacment for baned weapon.

Those types are solutions, but there are never any 100% guarantee that it will be "better"

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by MH

From my point of vew all those conventions are as usefull as signing convention for using paintball guns instead of real bullets.
Its just populistic bull.
The only way to ensure not using any sort of weapon in time of war is the fear of retaliation or having good or more effective replacment for baned weapon.

So true, our beloved and naive socialist President wanted Finland to give up landmines, they where replaced by cluster munitions.

Actually the mines are still waiting to be destroyed, might take time as our Generals look after the countrys best interest unlike politicians.