When to send another eel in?

Walruss · 03-29-11, 07:16 PM

Ok, first an excert from my log

0300- made contact with lone merchant north of shetland islands, est. GRT 4900. Submerged to make attack as sea is too rough for deck gun. Visabilty to 4,000 meters, foggy.

0404 Two torpedoes launched at short range, one hit observed well aft of boat. Second torpedo assumed to have missed, speedmis-estimated.

0420 ship not slowing appreciably, slight list. decided to attack again with stern torpedo

0510 Stern tube fired at short range, impact observed dead amidships. Ship immediatly slowed to ~ 2 knots or thereabouts. Dropped back to 1500 meters astern of target to observe

0815 : ship still making headway at 2 knots, afire and listing but not seeming to sink at any apreciably fast. Decision to attack again.

0845: Fired 4th torpedo at target from fore tubes, hit observed just aft of funnel. Ship immediately slows to 0 knots, lists heavily submerging her port side. Crew abandon ship.

My question is this: Would you have done that differently? I screwed up my speed estimate on the initial attack, elsewise I'd have had a lovelly setup of one eel below the funnel and 1 eel halfway between the funnel and her stern. I find this the best way to at least totally disable the ship, and normally sinks ships up to about 7,000 grt. I was in a bit of a hurry because that close to the shetlands, with daylight just breaking, i figured that aircraft, or maybe a destroyer, would soon be on their way to help the strickened ship. However 4 torpedoes for a paltry 5000 GRT does make me feel a little... sad. I've not even made it to my patrol zone and I'm down to 7 torpedoes all up (it's been a good trip out though- I've racked up 20,000 GRT in 6 using those torps). The bugger of it is, if the weather were any better I'd have just surfaced and put a few holes in her hull with the much cheaper.

How long do you wait before you put another torpedo in a wounded ship? if it's a lone merchant do you even stick around, or just continue on your merry way?

Walruss

03-29-11, 07:34 PM

If it's a medium cargo or tanker I get two eels to hit then finish it off with the deck gun...if it's a lone vessel.

A large tanker or merchant gets three then I open up with the deck gun.

That's just me though.

Gereke · 03-29-11, 09:31 PM

If a ship is that determined to not go down, and I can't use my deck gun due to weather-- I fire off another torpedo. It kind of stinks to have to use that many eels to put down a ship, but down it must go.

Or, alternatively you can install TheDarkWraith's "Unit Damage From Fire" mod (available here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=180921). Without that mod, fire is strictly a visual effect. With it, the fire you started will cause damage and can lead to the ship sinking. Also solves the problem of pesky aircraft flying around unconcerned with the fact that they are a flying fireball.

Fish In The Water · 03-29-11, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gereke

Or, alternatively you can install TheDarkWraith's "Unit Damage From Fire" mod (available here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=180921). Without that mod, fire is strictly a visual effect. With it, the fire you started will cause damage and can lead to the ship sinking. Also solves the problem of pesky aircraft flying around unconcerned with the fact that they are a flying fireball.

You got something against flying fireballs staying airborne indefinitely?

But seriously, it's a great mod that adds long-sought realism.

Gargamel · 03-29-11, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonusb

Spam spam spam

Errr... wtf.... but I am intrigued

Walruss · 03-30-11, 12:06 AM

thanks for the heads up guys, already grabbed his depth charge water disturbance mod from earlier this month, must have missed this release.... I could seriously kiss dark wraith for his continued support of sh3, even though he doesn't play it.

King_Zog · 03-30-11, 01:40 AM

I tend to fire one torpedo at the bow and one under the funnel. That seems to do the trick for most merchant ships.

It might just be me but I feel bow shots will generally force a ship under through the ship's own momentum, as the compartment floods and the ships pitches into the water. But again, that might just be wishful thinking on my part and not really an effect present ingame............

edit: For tankers I try to put two dead centre, as they tend to explode spectacularly and then break in half.

Fish In The Water · 03-30-11, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King_Zog

It might just be me but I feel bow shots will generally force a ship under through the ship's own momentum, as the compartment floods and the ships pitches into the water. But again, that might just be wishful thinking on my part and not really an effect present ingame............

Physics is your friend...

Nothing quite so fine as sitting back, relaxing and letting the big Mo do the dirty work for you!

desirableroasted · 03-30-11, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walruss

Ok, first an excert from my log

0300- made contact with lone merchant north of shetland islands, est. GRT 4900. Submerged to make attack as sea is too rough for deck gun. Visabilty to 4,000 meters, foggy.

0404 Two torpedoes launched at short range, one hit observed well aft of boat. Second torpedo assumed to have missed, speedmis-estimated.

0420 ship not slowing appreciably, slight list. decided to attack again with stern torpedo

0510 Stern tube fired at short range, impact observed dead amidships. Ship immediatly slowed to ~ 2 knots or thereabouts. Dropped back to 1500 meters astern of target to observe

0815 : ship still making headway at 2 knots, afire and listing but not seeming to sink at any apreciably fast. Decision to attack again.

0845: Fired 4th torpedo at target from fore tubes, hit observed just aft of funnel. Ship immediately slows to 0 knots, lists heavily submerging her port side. Crew abandon ship.

My question is this: Would you have done that differently? I screwed up my speed estimate on the initial attack, elsewise I'd have had a lovelly setup of one eel below the funnel and 1 eel halfway between the funnel and her stern. I find this the best way to at least totally disable the ship, and normally sinks ships up to about 7,000 grt. I was in a bit of a hurry because that close to the shetlands, with daylight just breaking, i figured that aircraft, or maybe a destroyer, would soon be on their way to help the strickened ship. However 4 torpedoes for a paltry 5000 GRT does make me feel a little... sad. I've not even made it to my patrol zone and I'm down to 7 torpedoes all up (it's been a good trip out though- I've racked up 20,000 GRT in 6 using those torps). The bugger of it is, if the weather were any better I'd have just surfaced and put a few holes in her hull with the much cheaper.

How long do you wait before you put another torpedo in a wounded ship? if it's a lone merchant do you even stick around, or just continue on your merry way?

Walruss

Playing GWX:

1 ship, 1 torpedo, is my goal. A magnetic under the forward crane (or 2nd forward crane if there are two) or the stack can kill any merchant under 12K.

Flooding is what kills in GWX. Ships don't flood instantly, and early flooding doesn't remarkably reduce speed, but flooding will bring them down.

For a 4900 tonner, in that area and conditions, I would have put one magnetic under her forward crane from 500-1000 out, submerged. I never send two torpedoes out, unless it is a fast moving capital warship.

I would then lay off 4000 m, trail her and observe. Diminished speed, listing, etc are good signs that they will go down. I have seen listing Empire freighters and large merchants chug on at 7 knots for hours until they suddenly sink. Patience works.

I consider firing a 2nd torpedo at 3 hours, but if I have lots of night, or open sea, ahead of me, I will wait. At 12 hours, if it is still afloat, I fire a 2nd, if I don't have deck gun conditions before.

Kapt Z · 03-30-11, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walruss

I was in a bit of a hurry because that close to the shetlands, with daylight just breaking, i figured that aircraft, or maybe a destroyer, would soon be on their way to help the strickened ship. However 4 torpedoes for a paltry 5000 GRT does make me feel a little... sad. I've not even made it to my patrol zone and I'm down to 7 torpedoes all up (it's been a good trip out though- I've racked up 20,000 GRT in 6 using those torps). The bugger of it is, if the weather were any better I'd have just surfaced and put a few holes in her hull with the much cheaper.

How long do you wait before you put another torpedo in a wounded ship? if it's a lone merchant do you even stick around, or just continue on your merry way?

Walruss

IMHO using whatever means to sink your target and protect your boat is not a 'waste'. You were not in a locale where I would have waited long either. I would have no problem using as many torpedoes as I felt necessary to finish her off and get out of there asap. I forget where I read it, maybe in the U-boat Commander's Handbook, that basically said "Don't worry about the ship you have yet to see. Concentrate on sinking the ship you have in your sights. YOU HAVE GOT WHAT YOU HAVE GOT."

Besides, with 20,000t in the bag already I doubt BdU will fault your tactics....

maillemaker · 03-30-11, 11:59 AM

Quote:

1 ship, 1 torpedo, is my goal. A magnetic under the forward crane (or 2nd forward crane if there are two) or the stack can kill any merchant under 12K.

Is the 2nd forward crane the one closest to the bow or stern?

Steve

03-30-11, 08:10 PM

Wasted torpedoes? Not at all.

What would I have done differently?
Because I would do it differently, does not make your methods wrong.

In the initial attack I would have fired 3 torpedoes.
Confident in my speed estimation, 1 in the bow, 1 under the forward section of the bridge, and the final in the stern.
Were I unconfident in my speed estimation, 1 just forward of the target, 1 dead center, and the final just aft the target. (Usualy results in 2 hits, or at least a bone minimum of 1 hit).

Step 2 would be going to 50 meters depth, along the targets base course, reload the tubes, listen, and follow at low speed.

Step 3 is dictated by your judgement about Time Of Day, Weather, Location, Enemy ASW Capabilities.

The 0510 attack may have been a-little premature.
It take 60 minutes from last known contact time (torpedo impact in this case), before a merchant will resume steaming on a straight course.

desirableroasted · 03-31-11, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maillemaker

Is the 2nd forward crane the one closest to the bow or stern?

Steve

Closer to the stern, but still ahead of the superstructure.

desirableroasted · 03-31-11, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snestorm

Wasted torpedoes? Not at all.

In the initial attack I would have fired 3 torpedoes.

*3* torpedoes on a 4900 tonner? From the start?

We all play the game differently, and more power to that, but three torpedoes just to start a 4900 tonner is overkill.

Even a large merchant does not need two initial shots, if it is a loner and you have time (which the OP did, and, yes, I am aware he was in the Shetlands).

But, again, we all play differently, and more power to that.

Gerald · 03-31-11, 04:22 AM

Is it early in the war and the ship is unarmed, so can you use deckgun,(waterline) if you should use torpedoes, then two fish last as

03-29-11, 07:16 PM	#1
Walruss Soundman Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 144 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	When to send another eel in? Ok, first an excert from my log 0300- made contact with lone merchant north of shetland islands, est. GRT 4900. Submerged to make attack as sea is too rough for deck gun. Visabilty to 4,000 meters, foggy. 0404 Two torpedoes launched at short range, one hit observed well aft of boat. Second torpedo assumed to have missed, speedmis-estimated. 0420 ship not slowing appreciably, slight list. decided to attack again with stern torpedo 0510 Stern tube fired at short range, impact observed dead amidships. Ship immediatly slowed to ~ 2 knots or thereabouts. Dropped back to 1500 meters astern of target to observe 0815 : ship still making headway at 2 knots, afire and listing but not seeming to sink at any apreciably fast. Decision to attack again. 0845: Fired 4th torpedo at target from fore tubes, hit observed just aft of funnel. Ship immediately slows to 0 knots, lists heavily submerging her port side. Crew abandon ship. My question is this: Would you have done that differently? I screwed up my speed estimate on the initial attack, elsewise I'd have had a lovelly setup of one eel below the funnel and 1 eel halfway between the funnel and her stern. I find this the best way to at least totally disable the ship, and normally sinks ships up to about 7,000 grt. I was in a bit of a hurry because that close to the shetlands, with daylight just breaking, i figured that aircraft, or maybe a destroyer, would soon be on their way to help the strickened ship. However 4 torpedoes for a paltry 5000 GRT does make me feel a little... sad. I've not even made it to my patrol zone and I'm down to 7 torpedoes all up (it's been a good trip out though- I've racked up 20,000 GRT in 6 using those torps). The bugger of it is, if the weather were any better I'd have just surfaced and put a few holes in her hull with the much cheaper. How long do you wait before you put another torpedo in a wounded ship? if it's a lone merchant do you even stick around, or just continue on your merry way? Walruss __________________ Lt. Z. S . Werner Krautsch Assigned: U-66 (IXc), 2nd Flot. 1. JAN 1941 Date: JAN 41 Patrols Completed: 0 Warships:0 Subs:0 Merchants: 0 Status: AT SEA

03-30-11, 12:06 AM	#6
Walruss Soundman Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 144 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 0	thanks for the heads up guys, already grabbed his depth charge water disturbance mod from earlier this month, must have missed this release.... I could seriously kiss dark wraith for his continued support of sh3, even though he doesn't play it. __________________ Lt. Z. S . Werner Krautsch Assigned: U-66 (IXc), 2nd Flot. 1. JAN 1941 Date: JAN 41 Patrols Completed: 0 Warships:0 Subs:0 Merchants: 0 Status: AT SEA

03-31-11, 04:22 AM	#15
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Is it early in the war and the ship is unarmed, so can you use deckgun,(waterline) if you should use torpedoes, then two fish last as __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

03-29-11, 07:34 PM	#2
NoGoodLandLubber Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	If it's a medium cargo or tanker I get two eels to hit then finish it off with the deck gun...if it's a lone vessel. A large tanker or merchant gets three then I open up with the deck gun. That's just me though.

03-29-11, 09:31 PM	#3
Gereke A-ganger Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 76 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	If a ship is that determined to not go down, and I can't use my deck gun due to weather-- I fire off another torpedo. It kind of stinks to have to use that many eels to put down a ship, but down it must go. Or, alternatively you can install TheDarkWraith's "Unit Damage From Fire" mod (available here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=180921). Without that mod, fire is strictly a visual effect. With it, the fire you started will cause damage and can lead to the ship sinking. Also solves the problem of pesky aircraft flying around unconcerned with the fact that they are a flying fireball.

03-30-11, 01:40 AM	#7
King_Zog Soundman Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: London Posts: 143 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	I tend to fire one torpedo at the bow and one under the funnel. That seems to do the trick for most merchant ships. It might just be me but I feel bow shots will generally force a ship under through the ship's own momentum, as the compartment floods and the ships pitches into the water. But again, that might just be wishful thinking on my part and not really an effect present ingame............ edit: For tankers I try to put two dead centre, as they tend to explode spectacularly and then break in half.

03-30-11, 08:10 PM	#12
Snestorm Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Wasted torpedoes? Not at all. What would I have done differently? Because I would do it differently, does not make your methods wrong. In the initial attack I would have fired 3 torpedoes. Confident in my speed estimation, 1 in the bow, 1 under the forward section of the bridge, and the final in the stern. Were I unconfident in my speed estimation, 1 just forward of the target, 1 dead center, and the final just aft the target. (Usualy results in 2 hits, or at least a bone minimum of 1 hit). Step 2 would be going to 50 meters depth, along the targets base course, reload the tubes, listen, and follow at low speed. Step 3 is dictated by your judgement about Time Of Day, Weather, Location, Enemy ASW Capabilities. The 0510 attack may have been a-little premature. It take 60 minutes from last known contact time (torpedo impact in this case), before a merchant will resume steaming on a straight course.