UK 'over-reliant' on GPS signals, engineers warn

XabbaRus · 03-13-11, 06:02 AM

You don't say?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12668230

I'm not surprised. I think most people have a GPS system in their car. I have one that I got as a present, but must admit it is onbly used so I can see what time I might be arriving at a destination rather than for guidance.

I do love studying a map though when going on a new route, often I find places to go on the way I'd miss if I stick in the GPS coordinates.

STEED · 03-13-11, 08:46 AM

Not that surprised at all, too much tech worship in this country I say.

Gargamel · 03-13-11, 01:49 PM

I hate the things. I can navigate better on my own. Whenever somebody has one, I try to beat the estimated time. Gimmy a map and compass any day.

As a medic, I refused to let new partners use them. Did they really expect to sit and punch in addresses when seconds count? They need to know the roads.

If I ever saw another crew using one, and they were out of there truck, I'd change the voice setting to swedish. "Bjork 2 kilometeres BORK BORK BORK!" People would really flip out when that happened.

Jimbuna · 03-13-11, 01:53 PM

I find mine to be very helpful in planning alternative routes when it is warned of traffic congestion or accidents up ahead.

Oberon · 03-13-11, 01:54 PM

Some of the screw-ups that people have deliberately made whilst following their GPS astound me...like driving into a river that the GPS thinks is a ford...I mean...you have eyes don't you?!

XabbaRus · 03-13-11, 02:58 PM

They have their uses but like I said you look at a map when working out where to go you spot other places that look interesting and you plan a detour.

I sometimes wish that it would all go wrong just to see how the nuggins in the street cope.

Oberon · 03-13-11, 03:05 PM

They'd probably all drive into the sea.

I like using maps too...I might not be so great with them sometimes...but that's how you find interesting little places.

Jimbuna · 03-13-11, 03:28 PM

The only time my satnav was no good to me (not that I use it that often) was last year when I tried to use it to find Grizedale Hall (U-boat Hotel) but in fairness to it, Grizedale Hall is now a Forestry Commission Centre and probably goes by another name.

I also had fun with an earlier model shortly after the motorway modifications at Ferrybridge where the A1 links up with the M62....the bloody thing didn't know the motorway had been moved 1/4 of a mile and thought it was in a field

CCIP · 03-13-11, 03:38 PM

I wanna see what would happen if you take one of those things up on a plane

"Drive down 10 kilometers, then turn left..."

Gargamel · 03-13-11, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

I wanna see what would happen if you take one of those things up on a plane

"Drive down 10 kilometers, then turn left..."

Spent 2 weeks on a house boat on the St Lawrence a few years ago. Brought the Garmin car GPS.

Yeah... the thing was useless. Kept trying to get us to drive to the nearest road. And it didn't even have the rideau canal properly mapped so it thought we were going through fields.

Then, on the week long drive home (stopped and camped at mutiple spots), we stopped at Fort Ticonderoga. The GPS found it ok... but only the driveway...... which is like 4 miles long. The entire time, it kept saying (cause I couldn't mute it or get the volume below 10%) "Turn around, turn Around"

After about 15 minutes of this, I swear to God, it said "Fine!" and turned off.

jumpy · 03-13-11, 06:34 PM

Never used a twat-nav myself, and I've seen plenty of articulated lorries stuck down small side streets/under low bridges

Might be useful with finding speed traps and some town destinations, but I rarely go to other big cities by car. Any other time I'll use the OS roadmap and a line sketch of roads around destination for quick reference.

Schöneboom · 03-13-11, 06:41 PM

This looks like an "appropriate technology" question: when is GPS the sensible solution, and when not? A handheld device for a trekker in the wilderness, that I could justify. And for a ship to navigate on the open sea. But the talking car units, as they are right now? Nah.

Given that satellites are not invulnerable, it would behoove us to maintain the old skills of navigation, just in case.

CCIP · 03-13-11, 06:50 PM

I like them in cars, but not for directions or talking. I don't drive myself, but having gone on roadtrips with friends who have them, I find them useful for being able to quickly figure out where exactly you are. Also handy for when you have to make a quick pit stop for food or supplies in an unfamiliar area. Directions? Nah. Honestly, these often distract and confuse more than help - road signs more than do the job for that.

Gargamel · 03-13-11, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schöneboom

A handheld device for a trekker in the wilderness, that I could justify.

I've thought about that a lot.

Yes, I have carried them when I've done long backpacking trips. But usually just following the map and trail has sufficed. So if I want to go overland? I take a bearing with the compass and head that direction, and using the topo maps I would know land features to help navigate. If you're really good, you don't even need a compass. Just an altimeter and topo map. (That I have done, but my altimeter was my GPS

).

back country the GPS is good for setting where you parked your car, where you left your tent, etc, So in an emergency, you can easily find your way back. But to travel into the wilderness with only a GPS?

I can see it being useful for situations 'similar' to ocean travel. Ie, Tundras and wide open plains while in/on a motorzied vehicle.

Platapus · 03-14-11, 11:51 AM

Whether it is in the military or in someone's car, there is nothing wrong with using a GPS nav system. The technology is there you might as well use it.

The problem, that I see, is when people (military or civilian) can't use anything but a GPS to navigate.

Now if a civilian can't navigate without a GPS, they may end up coming late to little susie's birthday party.

When someone in the military can't navigate without GPS, people will die, or more appropriately, the wrong people will die.

Does the military still teach the basic map/compass skills any more? I sure hope so and not just as a back up.

But that is not the only problem. How many weapon systems depend on GPS to the extent that no GPS no weapon.

GPS navigation is a great thing. It has helped me many times, it is a great convenience and it often helps me do what I need to do more efficiently.

But, and this is as large a but as my Butt is, it should not be the only way to navigate. People still need to know how to use maps and how to mentally visualize their trip.

The problem is not GPS, but the reliance on GPS.

03-13-11, 06:02 AM	#1
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	UK 'over-reliant' on GPS signals, engineers warn You don't say? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12668230 I'm not surprised. I think most people have a GPS system in their car. I have one that I got as a present, but must admit it is onbly used so I can see what time I might be arriving at a destination rather than for guidance. I do love studying a map though when going on a new route, often I find places to go on the way I'd miss if I stick in the GPS coordinates. __________________

03-13-11, 08:46 AM	#2
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	Not that surprised at all, too much tech worship in this country I say. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

03-13-11, 01:49 PM	#3
Gargamel Lucky Sailor Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Rome Posts: 4,273 Downloads: 81 Uploads: 0	I hate the things. I can navigate better on my own. Whenever somebody has one, I try to beat the estimated time. Gimmy a map and compass any day. As a medic, I refused to let new partners use them. Did they really expect to sit and punch in addresses when seconds count? They need to know the roads. If I ever saw another crew using one, and they were out of there truck, I'd change the voice setting to swedish. "Bjork 2 kilometeres BORK BORK BORK!" People would really flip out when that happened. __________________ Luck is a residue of Design.

03-13-11, 01:53 PM	#4
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,461 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	I find mine to be very helpful in planning alternative routes when it is warned of traffic congestion or accidents up ahead. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

03-13-11, 02:58 PM	#6
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	They have their uses but like I said you look at a map when working out where to go you spot other places that look interesting and you plan a detour. I sometimes wish that it would all go wrong just to see how the nuggins in the street cope. __________________

03-13-11, 01:54 PM	#5
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	Some of the screw-ups that people have deliberately made whilst following their GPS astound me...like driving into a river that the GPS thinks is a ford...I mean...you have eyes don't you?!

03-13-11, 03:05 PM	#7
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	They'd probably all drive into the sea. I like using maps too...I might not be so great with them sometimes...but that's how you find interesting little places.

03-13-11, 03:28 PM	#8
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,461 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	The only time my satnav was no good to me (not that I use it that often) was last year when I tried to use it to find Grizedale Hall (U-boat Hotel) but in fairness to it, Grizedale Hall is now a Forestry Commission Centre and probably goes by another name. I also had fun with an earlier model shortly after the motorway modifications at Ferrybridge where the A1 links up with the M62....the bloody thing didn't know the motorway had been moved 1/4 of a mile and thought it was in a field __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

03-13-11, 03:38 PM	#9
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	I wanna see what would happen if you take one of those things up on a plane "Drive down 10 kilometers, then turn left..." __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

03-13-11, 06:34 PM	#11
jumpy Admiral Join Date: May 2003 Location: Midlands, UK Posts: 2,139 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	Never used a twat-nav myself, and I've seen plenty of articulated lorries stuck down small side streets/under low bridges Might be useful with finding speed traps and some town destinations, but I rarely go to other big cities by car. Any other time I'll use the OS roadmap and a line sketch of roads around destination for quick reference. __________________ when you’ve been so long in the desert, any water, no matter how brackish, looks like life

03-13-11, 06:41 PM	#12
Schöneboom Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 651 Downloads: 36 Uploads: 0	This looks like an "appropriate technology" question: when is GPS the sensible solution, and when not? A handheld device for a trekker in the wilderness, that I could justify. And for a ship to navigate on the open sea. But the talking car units, as they are right now? Nah. Given that satellites are not invulnerable, it would behoove us to maintain the old skills of navigation, just in case. __________________ Dietrich Schöneboom, U-431 "Es wird klappen, Herr Kaleun. Ganz sicher."

03-13-11, 06:50 PM	#13
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	I like them in cars, but not for directions or talking. I don't drive myself, but having gone on roadtrips with friends who have them, I find them useful for being able to quickly figure out where exactly you are. Also handy for when you have to make a quick pit stop for food or supplies in an unfamiliar area. Directions? Nah. Honestly, these often distract and confuse more than help - road signs more than do the job for that. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

03-14-11, 11:51 AM	#15
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,360 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Whether it is in the military or in someone's car, there is nothing wrong with using a GPS nav system. The technology is there you might as well use it. The problem, that I see, is when people (military or civilian) can't use anything but a GPS to navigate. Now if a civilian can't navigate without a GPS, they may end up coming late to little susie's birthday party. When someone in the military can't navigate without GPS, people will die, or more appropriately, the wrong people will die. Does the military still teach the basic map/compass skills any more? I sure hope so and not just as a back up. But that is not the only problem. How many weapon systems depend on GPS to the extent that no GPS no weapon. GPS navigation is a great thing. It has helped me many times, it is a great convenience and it often helps me do what I need to do more efficiently. But, and this is as large a but as my Butt is, it should not be the only way to navigate. People still need to know how to use maps and how to mentally visualize their trip. The problem is not GPS, but the reliance on GPS. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.