How to stay undetected?

[Siberian]

Being a real novice I struggle with staying undetected - unsuccessfully. They always know excactly where to find me. So I'm pretty much in need of tips on how to stay undetected while approaching a convoy or having a "dogfight" with an enemy escort. Obviously in order to get in touch with it I can't move like a snail unless I'm lucky with their course abling me to intercept it.

Most often I end up in a situation where I and a destroyer (or more) have visual contact, but going under and changing course doesn't seem to do much.

I do obvious things like keeping the periscope down, not using sonar, and keeping low speed (1/3) at most. Anything else?

All hints and tips are appreciated

[Krauter]

Depends on a host of things.

Mostly, what Mods are you running.

Also, what time is it? What are the surface conditions?

If escorts are aware of your presence, go as deep as you can and set speed so that your making less then 100RPMs.

It just takes practise.

[Siberian]

Originally Posted by Krauter

Mostly, what Mods are you running.
Also, what time is it? What are the surface conditions?

They are indeed aware of my presence. At the moment I don't use any mods. I suppose we can say daytime with good weather since those supposedly are the hardest conditions. If I can make it here I'll make it anywhere

[Platapus]

I like to make some comments on your post.

The term "having a dog fight with an enemy escort" is a bit strange.

Submarines don't normally dog fight with escorts in the same context as fighter aircraft (maneuver, attack, maneuver, attack, rinse and repeat). Escorts are either ignored and avoided (best) or they are attacked once without warning.

Once detected, submarines are at a distinct disadvantage in combat. Actually once detected, we lose pretty much every advantage we have.

Obviously in order to get in touch with it I can't move like a snail unless I'm lucky with their course abling me to intercept it.

Or you shadow the convoy until the situation is good for you to attack. One of the worst things you can do is get "Buck fever". When you first spot a convoy, forget any thoughts of attacking it. Shadow it and get a good plot. Your most powerful weapon is time. Use it wisely. Only attack when it is good for you to attack. It was not uncommon for a submarine to shadow a convoy for many many hours. If you find a convoy during the day, shadow it until nightfall. Once you commit to the attack, the situation will only get worse. So be sure to attack only when the situation is best for you.

Most often I end up in a situation where I and a destroyer (or more) have visual contact, but going under and changing course doesn't seem to do much.

If a destroyer has visual contact with you, you have already messed up the approach and should abort the attack. If you are lucky you can reacquire the convoy and start shadowing it for another approach.

Submarines are snipers. We track our prey, we learn about our prey, and we position ourselves so the prey comes to us.

Find a convoy and keep just out of the convoy's visual range. If it is easy to see them, it is easy for them to see you. Get the convoy's course and speed. Surface outside their visual range and use full speed to get to a good shooting position. This make take hours of game time. Don't use TC at high levels.

As you are doing your end around the convoy, use this time to understand the pattern of the escorts. How are they patrolling the convoy. How much time does it take for them to turn (this is why low tc is best).

By the time you are well ahead of the convoy and getting ready to set up your attack, you should know the following

1. Convoy course
2. Convoy speed
3. Number and general type of ships in the convoy
4. Number of escorts
5. Operational patterns and timings of escorts.

If you don't know all of this, consider not attacking but going back to shadowing. You have all the time in the world. Rushing an attack only benefits the enemy.

Good luck with it.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Welcome Siberian.
Getting detected is something we all have to put up with from time to time. A few pointers can help but, you'll have to develope and tailor them to suit your needs in any given situation. As previously mentioned, a lot of things (or variables) affect the detection equation. For example, your angle of approach, weather conditions and your approach speed (on the surface and submerged).
Try to approach the target at anywhere from a 45° to 90° angle. Make sure your crew is at battlestations and your boat is rigged for silent running. Silent Running should automatically reduce your speed to an acceptably slow level. Rough seas make it harder for the enemy to detect you but if seas are calm, try going below the thermocline (thermal layer) and approaching from the depths.


Make sure you are at an angle (near any DD) that offers the least target for enemy sonar to bounce off of. If your broadside is facing the front of a destroyer, you're going to be in deep trouble if you don't correct it. Don't get too close too soon. Wait for the lead DD to pass and then continue your approach. I'm sure others will offer their own thoughts and, take your time. Don't get discouraged. This sim has a steep learning curve but, you will get the hang of it. Good Luck.

[Krauter]

Couldn't have really said it better Platapus.

Submarines are ambush hunters. We don't chase after our targets (unless unescorted and even then..) nor do we go in guns a blazing.

"If it's an even and fair fight, you did something wrong". This is my motto when attacking shipping with a submarine. When you attack, the odds should be so overwhelmingly in your favour that it creates chaos. Chaos is good, it means the escorts aren't organized. An organized escort force cohesively hunting for you is something dangerous, whereas an un cohesive one is just a matter of sidestepping them.

Take your time, unless they're about to make landfall (in which case you shouldn't attack anyways because of aircover..) you have days if not weeks in the pacific to track them and destroy them.

They are indeed aware of my presence. At the moment I don't use any mods. I suppose we can say daytime with good weather since those supposedly are the hardest conditions. If I can make it here I'll make it anywhere

This is a wrong attitude. Yes, being prepared for the worst is good. But you want to be prepared to the point you never get into a bad situation. You should have a checklist that if your attack doesnt meet all of those points such as *night*, *bad weather*, *low number of escorts*, etc, you shouldn't attack.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Krauter

"If it's an even and fair fight, you did something wrong". This is my motto when attacking shipping with a submarine. When you attack, the odds should be so overwhelmingly in your favour that it creates chaos. Chaos is good, it means the escorts aren't organized. An organized escort force cohesively hunting for you is something dangerous, whereas an un cohesive one is just a matter of sidestepping them.

Actually, I think you did say it better.

[Krauter]

Thanks! I forget where I heard that quote.. but it really stuck with me when I played subsims.

[Siberian]

This is all great advice One question for Platapus though;
You say to shadow the convoy outside its visual range. I suppose this must be done submerged since if I was surfaced they could also see me? Following this I'll probably need to back away a bit now and then in need to charge the batteries. Is this correct procedure Captain Platapus?

[Krauter]

No way in hell you'll keep up to them submerged.

World War Two submarines are not like their modern day counterparts. They were designed as torpedo boats that could hide underwater to conduct attacks and evade. Stay surfaced and use rader/periodic sonar checks to make sure they're still there. Certain mods also allow stack smoke so you can track them that way also.

The only time you should be submerged is, during the day near airfields; evading attack, or conducting an attack

[Captain J. Borne]

I got goosebumps reading your reply, plat. Those are words of wisdom.

[I'm goin' down]

I suggest you look at the following link in the Skipper's Bag of Tricks sticky:
"SH3 & SH4 "Uber" AI Explained"

AI is artificial intelligence. This article explains some additional theory.

[commandosolo2009]

Originally Posted by WernherVonTrapp

regarding your chart, if I engage full speed so deeper below the thermocline, would DDs be able to hear me? I'm in early war, Jan 1942, but I guess they would. If I'm a 100 m deep?

[Hylander_1314]

Here's a cool little utility made for SH4 "Bearing to AOB + Sonar Fix.

Read the first post, and follow the link to FF to grab the utility. It really helps to set up a great torpedo attack, since the DDs and DEs just always seem to locate you while running silent, and deep.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...+%2B+Sonar+FIX

Really helps with getting in close initially and if you're careful, you can really spring a suprize on them, and be gone like a ghost in the night before they know what hit them.

[I'm goin' down]

nicolas was the inventer of the Easy Aob mod.