Does this mean there is no SH4?

GlobalExplorer · 11-02-05, 06:33 AM

Have you read this post by the TeddyBÃ¤r?

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopi...er=asc&start=0

"The original SHIII Dev Team have been moved onto various other projects and are offering their assistance to the community as they can in their own free time. It was Ubisofts decision not to make available a SDK for SHIII, the Dev Team are only employees. However, it is only through the grace of Ubisoft that the SHIII Dev Team have been able to make such generous offers. So letâ€™s not get into â€˜yer but they saidâ€™ etc, it will not change anything."

"In May, the SHIII Dev Team had mostly been split up. Some having been moved onto other projects, and in some cases they have left Ubisoft.
Let me clarify something. There is NO add on for SHIII, there is at this stage NO SHIV.
Guys, you need to understand, SHIII is a finished project for Ubisoft. Finished, no more patches and no add ons, nothing. I would not rule out a SHIV, but I am 99% sure that ther most likely will not be one anytime in the next few years."

@TeddyBear: Now can we trust you that this is the "official unofficial" announcement that there will be no further development of sh4??

Does this come that much as a surprise? I was incredulous when SHIII was announced three years ago, and I was much more incredulous when it came out and I saw what a serious and thorough simulation it was. Exactly the game the subsim community had craved for.
Now IMO this type of hard core sim has no chance on todays market whatsoever and UBI must have known it (and developed it anyway, thx UBI). Especially I want to thank the romanian developers, who have put all their life blood into this game, and it shows. You guys are great. Ten years after AOD you have created the first uboat simulation that surpasses it, now lets see how long it takes until another one comes.

What do you think?

oRGy · 11-02-05, 10:29 AM

Sounds like typical corporate management techniques.

Team makes a good game, break them up, move onto something else, repeat.

Twelvefield · 11-02-05, 11:30 AM

I think that the future of computer games that push the envelope of gaming entertainment will come from the smaller game developers, especially from Europe. I less and less cone to expect that ground-breaking or specialist/simulation games will come from the giant game companies like EA, with MS Flight Simulator being the exception that proves the rule.

That being said, the SHIII game developers aren't dead, they've just been re-tasked. They will work on something else for now, but sooner or later, they will come up with something that echoes Silent Hunter. It's just like the guys that originally came up with "The Sims" no longer work together, but those developers are responsible for a lot of Sims-like behavior in more recent games: CJ now goes to clothing stores to try on outfits in Grand Theft Auto, there's a lot of Sims-like activity in Evil Genius, Pirates! features "Simlish" speaking characters, etc. etc. etc.

SteamWake · 11-02-05, 11:44 AM

I think one other exception would be (shudder) Ubisoft whom have shown there willingness to try and market niche sims like.. oh yea Silent Hunter 3.

Even Micro$oft doesent publish an update to Flight Simulator but every 4 years or so.

wetwarev7 · 11-02-05, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twelvefield

I think that the future of computer games that push the envelope of gaming entertainment will come from the smaller game developers, especially from Europe. I less and less cone to expect that ground-breaking or specialist/simulation games will come from the giant game companies like EA,

I agree. If you ever get a chance, check out Egosoft's X3: The Return. This series is by far the best space game, period. I first learned of it when they had just come out witht the expansion pack for the first one, and I was able to order it and the expansion, with overseas shipping, for like $25(US), because there was absolutly no marketing for it here in the states.

I find that as a rule of thumb, the more marketing a game has, the less likely it will be a ground-breaking or epic experience, and almost ALL games made in the States by large companies are market driven. All the best, classic games I can think of were all made by people or companies who were, at the time, nobodies.

Trav_R · 11-02-05, 03:29 PM

Mafia, developed by the Czech developer Illusion Softworks, is the most badassinest organized crime game the world has ever seen, bar none. The fact that a Czech company had such a good grasp of organized crime in America in the 1930's is proof of the amount of care and attention detail that was put into the game. If you haven't played it, and you read about it, you may think "Grand Theft Auto." Let me assure you, they are quite different. Mafia is linear, not so open ended. This has its drawbacks, but has the major bonus of allowing for a very very good plot, with very real and likeable characters. It's very easy to become immersed.

Archangel · 11-02-05, 03:43 PM

"Mafia" is a LOVELY game

I have beaten it 3 times, as a sidenote use wheel and pedals for the driving...oh my good times

GlobalExplorer · 11-02-05, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

I think one other exception would be (shudder) Ubisoft whom have shown there willingness to try and market niche sims like.. oh yea Silent Hunter 3.

Even Micro$oft doesent publish an update to Flight Simulator but every 4 years or so.

Exactly. UBI bashing has to stop IMO. The only big publisher that is still producing a few hard core sims (and might possibly have sometimes lost money over it).

Examples?

IL-2
- good graphics
- big success story
- sequel in the works

LOMAC
- endless development time
- great graphics
- sold badly cause of complexity

SH3
- great game
- short development time
- sales so-so cause it's too special (?)

And all those games are on my harddrive

Well, maybe Microsoft should also be given some credit <ducks in a trench>. Don't forget they published titles like Train simulator, which other publisher would have dared that? Somehow I still hope their current campaign to promote PC-gaming might miraculously include the announcement of CFS4. Though CFS3 sucked badly, CFS2 was really good.

GlobalExplorer · 11-02-05, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twelvefield

I think that the future of computer games that push the envelope of gaming entertainment will come from the smaller game developers, especially from Europe. I less and less cone to expect that ground-breaking or specialist/simulation games will come from the giant game companies like EA, with MS Flight Simulator being the exception that proves the rule.

That might be true and in a couple of years there could be some smaller players providing for the sim-market. Hopefully.

I do, however, believe that their games would have to become outrageausly expensive. There is no way they're gonna be able to sell their games for 50$ and still make a profit.

Because much smaller numbers = higher price per unit.

Lets imagine there was a company that sells a hard core subsim, with regular updates for 500 $ per copy. Imagine you also have to pay for new features / content, lets say another 100-500 $ annually?

That would mean ~ 1 million dollar if you were able to sell 1000 copies to people who want to pay the money. I am sure such a model could possibly work with a few people on this board, but it would still be a huge risk for such a company.

FERdeBOER · 11-02-05, 04:22 PM

Most of my recent games are from Ubi. Is the few "big" company that makes quality games at good prices, but on the other side, they do not care a lot their games once released.

But we have to support them.

It's a pity that SHIII is considered finished, because still have a lot of time of funn because it's great graphics and engine. A Paciffic add-on would be great. Also a Destroyer add-on...
We would have to put our hopes on the modders. Thank you for your work!!

About small companies making great games: take2 and "hidden&dangerous"

benetofski · 11-02-05, 04:41 PM

Like anything else, a product has a life-cycle and depending upon the revenues generated this can be long or short!

Smaller Companies have shorter development times and test their markets by consumer demand.

Unfortunately the computer games user-base tires very quickly of any new product, so new development must always be the manufacturers priority.

I am still not sure why UBISOFT did not release an SDK, being that the game was heavily touted as a 'sub-sim'...

I guess (thinking about it) they have every right to protect their 'intellectual property' however they seem fit - maybe because it could open a 'Pandora's Box' to a community-driven pseudo-SH4 and perhaps they want to keep that option open to themselves? :hmm:

As far as the Team break up is concerned, I wish every one of them the very best of luck in their future endeavours and thanks for a great game.

11-02-05, 05:06 PM

Hey let's be glad we ended up with as good as sub simulator as SH3. After all, we could have ended up with a sub sim that was very very poor in quality. Good Hunting on the high seas, Erich Topp U-552

Hellcat · 11-02-05, 05:09 PM

Despite the fact that SHIV is currently over the hills, I still do not see how they can release a product support it for several months and then stop fixing it.

For example if I purchase a car I'd expect the manufactuer to continue to make service recalls/bulletins untill all pontential problems are eliminated. Product support should last the life of the product (ie while people are still using it) rather than when sales drop off the map. Hell take a look at Blizzard they released a patch for Diablo recently and that one came out years and years ago...

Ula Jolly · 11-02-05, 05:11 PM

CFS3 sucked so bad in comparison to CFS2, I'm not even gonna start. Seriously, it was... anal.

CWorth · 11-02-05, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellcat

Despite the fact that SHIV is currently over the hills, I still do not see how they can release a product support it for several months and then stop fixing it.

For example if I purchase a car I'd expect the manufactuer to continue to make service recalls/bulletins untill all pontential problems are eliminated. Product support should last the life of the product (ie while people are still using it) rather than when sales drop off the map. Hell take a look at Blizzard they released a patch for Diablo recently and that one came out years and years ago...

This is the problem nowadays.Most game companies dont give a hoot about the customers/gamers once they have your money.They got what they wanted and who cares about anything else.Ubi is really no different than any other company in this sense.

Look at Pacific Fighters that was released..It is unfinished and missing most of what made the Pacific War what it was.And there are no plans to remedy this and Ubi has for the most part are finished with it.

Alot of companies should look to Battlefront.com and see how you are supposed to treat and support those that buy your products.This is why they still have people playing CMBO that was made years ago.They support their games 100% and do everything they can to make sure they fix any bugs that come up in their programs and also do what they say they are going to do in terms of adding or fixing issues.The software industry could learn alot from Battlefront.

11-02-05, 06:33 AM	#1
GlobalExplorer Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Berlin Posts: 2,015 Downloads: 165 Uploads: 0	Does this mean there is no SH4? Have you read this post by the TeddyBÃ¤r? http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopi...er=asc&start=0 "The original SHIII Dev Team have been moved onto various other projects and are offering their assistance to the community as they can in their own free time. It was Ubisofts decision not to make available a SDK for SHIII, the Dev Team are only employees. However, it is only through the grace of Ubisoft that the SHIII Dev Team have been able to make such generous offers. So letâ€™s not get into â€˜yer but they saidâ€™ etc, it will not change anything." "In May, the SHIII Dev Team had mostly been split up. Some having been moved onto other projects, and in some cases they have left Ubisoft. Let me clarify something. There is NO add on for SHIII, there is at this stage NO SHIV. Guys, you need to understand, SHIII is a finished project for Ubisoft. Finished, no more patches and no add ons, nothing. I would not rule out a SHIV, but I am 99% sure that ther most likely will not be one anytime in the next few years." @TeddyBear: Now can we trust you that this is the "official unofficial" announcement that there will be no further development of sh4?? Does this come that much as a surprise? I was incredulous when SHIII was announced three years ago, and I was much more incredulous when it came out and I saw what a serious and thorough simulation it was. Exactly the game the subsim community had craved for. Now IMO this type of hard core sim has no chance on todays market whatsoever and UBI must have known it (and developed it anyway, thx UBI). Especially I want to thank the romanian developers, who have put all their life blood into this game, and it shows. You guys are great. Ten years after AOD you have created the first uboat simulation that surpasses it, now lets see how long it takes until another one comes. What do you think?

11-02-05, 10:29 AM	#2
oRGy Crusty Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 648 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Sounds like typical corporate management techniques. Team makes a good game, break them up, move onto something else, repeat. __________________

11-02-05, 03:43 PM	#7
Archangel Seaman Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 35 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	"Mafia" is a LOVELY game I have beaten it 3 times, as a sidenote use wheel and pedals for the driving...oh my good times __________________ \"Beast of morality\"

11-02-05, 04:22 PM	#10
FERdeBOER XO Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 431 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 1	Most of my recent games are from Ubi. Is the few "big" company that makes quality games at good prices, but on the other side, they do not care a lot their games once released. But we have to support them. It's a pity that SHIII is considered finished, because still have a lot of time of funn because it's great graphics and engine. A Paciffic add-on would be great. Also a Destroyer add-on... We would have to put our hopes on the modders. Thank you for your work!! About small companies making great games: take2 and "hidden&dangerous" __________________ Hay dos tipos de buques: los submarinos... y los blancos. There are two types of ships: the subs... and the targets.

11-02-05, 04:41 PM	#11
benetofski Helmsman Join Date: May 2005 Location: Port Perry, Canada Posts: 106 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Like anything else, a product has a life-cycle and depending upon the revenues generated this can be long or short! Smaller Companies have shorter development times and test their markets by consumer demand. Unfortunately the computer games user-base tires very quickly of any new product, so new development must always be the manufacturers priority. I am still not sure why UBISOFT did not release an SDK, being that the game was heavily touted as a 'sub-sim'... I guess (thinking about it) they have every right to protect their 'intellectual property' however they seem fit - maybe because it could open a 'Pandora's Box' to a community-driven pseudo-SH4 and perhaps they want to keep that option open to themselves? :hmm: As far as the Team break up is concerned, I wish every one of them the very best of luck in their future endeavours and thanks for a great game. __________________ OLt.z.S.Benetschik (Benetofski) [IMG][/IMG] \"U-bootwaffe - eine Gemeinschaft zusammengebracht durch Schicksal\"

11-02-05, 11:30 AM	#3
Twelvefield Planesman Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 186 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I think that the future of computer games that push the envelope of gaming entertainment will come from the smaller game developers, especially from Europe. I less and less cone to expect that ground-breaking or specialist/simulation games will come from the giant game companies like EA, with MS Flight Simulator being the exception that proves the rule. That being said, the SHIII game developers aren't dead, they've just been re-tasked. They will work on something else for now, but sooner or later, they will come up with something that echoes Silent Hunter. It's just like the guys that originally came up with "The Sims" no longer work together, but those developers are responsible for a lot of Sims-like behavior in more recent games: CJ now goes to clothing stores to try on outfits in Grand Theft Auto, there's a lot of Sims-like activity in Evil Genius, Pirates! features "Simlish" speaking characters, etc. etc. etc.

11-02-05, 11:44 AM	#4
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I think one other exception would be (shudder) Ubisoft whom have shown there willingness to try and market niche sims like.. oh yea Silent Hunter 3. Even Micro$oft doesent publish an update to Flight Simulator but every 4 years or so.

11-02-05, 03:29 PM	#6
Trav_R Ensign Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Oklahoma, USA Posts: 227 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Mafia, developed by the Czech developer Illusion Softworks, is the most badassinest organized crime game the world has ever seen, bar none. The fact that a Czech company had such a good grasp of organized crime in America in the 1930's is proof of the amount of care and attention detail that was put into the game. If you haven't played it, and you read about it, you may think "Grand Theft Auto." Let me assure you, they are quite different. Mafia is linear, not so open ended. This has its drawbacks, but has the major bonus of allowing for a very very good plot, with very real and likeable characters. It's very easy to become immersed.

11-02-05, 05:06 PM	#12
U-552Erich-Topp Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Hey let's be glad we ended up with as good as sub simulator as SH3. After all, we could have ended up with a sub sim that was very very poor in quality. Good Hunting on the high seas, Erich Topp U-552

11-02-05, 05:09 PM	#13
Hellcat Ensign Join Date: May 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 224 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Despite the fact that SHIV is currently over the hills, I still do not see how they can release a product support it for several months and then stop fixing it. For example if I purchase a car I'd expect the manufactuer to continue to make service recalls/bulletins untill all pontential problems are eliminated. Product support should last the life of the product (ie while people are still using it) rather than when sales drop off the map. Hell take a look at Blizzard they released a patch for Diablo recently and that one came out years and years ago... __________________ "readiness is only accomplished when the need for it is over"

11-02-05, 05:11 PM	#14
Ula Jolly Samurai Navy Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 567 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	CFS3 sucked so bad in comparison to CFS2, I'm not even gonna start. Seriously, it was... anal.