Turkey warns EU becoming 'Christian club'

Gerald · 01-29-11, 07:04 AM

Turkey's deputy prime minister complained on Saturday that the European Union was becoming an inward-looking "Christian club", slamming a lack of progress in his country's bid to join.

Speaking on a panel at the World Economic Forum in Davos that included EU President Herman Van Rompuy, Ali Babacan said: "We always thought the EU is a big peace project... but then the enlargement process literally stalled.

"Open door policy is no longer there," he added.

"And one of the big themes about why Turkey cannot become a member of the European Union is because it is a Christian club. This is in our view very, very dangerous," he said.

Beyond this, France's President Nicolas Sarkozy and Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel has expressed opposition to Turkey's bid.People in the Islamic world are looking closely at the EU to see whether it will open its doors to Turkey, said Babacan, also economy minister.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20110129...c-5268574.html

Note: 2011.01.29

Feuer Frei! · 01-29-11, 07:38 AM

I think we need to also ask the question:
Why does Turkey want to join the EU?
The secular side wants in because Turkey risks falling into the theocratic muslim circle.The military wants in because it will keep turkey secular and modern.
The current administration of Turkey says it wants in because they can use it to further there own agenda of a muslim state without the Military shutting them down.
Now,
Turkey started entry talks with the European Union five years ago, but negotiations on several policy areas have stalled or have been suspended because of Turkey's refusal to open its ports to trade with EU-member Cyprus as well as opposition in France and other European countries' to letting a populous, Muslim nation into the 27-nation bloc.
It's actually interesting to point out that both the Orthodox Church in Turkey, along with the Syriacs and Armenian Apostolic Church are in favor of Turkey joining the EU. In a nutshell, the reason they are in favor of Turkish EU membership is that there will be leverage to force Turkey to live up to the constitutional guarantee, which has been part of the Turkish constitution since the republic was established, as well as a condition for EU membership, to grant religious freedom to all citizens. Hence, unlike Saudi Arabia, which constitutionally bans all religions except Islam, Turkey already, at least notionally, guarantess this first freedom.
But how can Turkey join the EU without recognizing a member state (Cyprus) for instance?
The suppresion of human rights is also a very big issue : why the orthodox patriarchate of Istanbul is not capable of training its own priests?
The problem is in Turkey's imperialist attitude as evidenced in Cyprus, or the state run by the Generals who question the sovereignty of 2 EU member states, namely Greece and Cyprus for instance.
Europe should not be asked to take a chance on Turkey.
There is the Da'wa threat, and the demographic threat, for a start, both felt in Europe.

Skybird · 01-29-11, 08:02 AM

To hell with Erdoghan and Turkey. A racist, supremacist, cheating, split-tongued, bigmouthed bastard like him, propagating a totalitarian, inhumane ideology and call that barbarism a "peace" and a "freedom", while calling the demand that Turks should integrate if living in other countries a "crime against humanity", should not lecture others about "values".

BTW, historically the cultural sphere of Europe IS a Judaic-Christian club, in all that was bad, but also, what in the modern era outshines the past, in all that became good.

While Erdoghan once again shows what a two-faced a#####e he is, from Iran we get reports that mirror what wqas reported from Turkey early last year: Iran sees the biggest wave of persecutions of Christians currently since 70 years. Early last year, discrimination of Christian communities by turning legal schicanes against them, and sacking in the property they left behind when leaving or where not allowed to keep, reached a climax in Turkey. One year before that Egypt saw a massive attempt of supressing and driving out the Koptian Christians by killing their lifestocks and minimising or even preventing their financial compensations.

The past 5 years have seen a huge grow in violent and massive persecution of Christian communities in most of the all Islamic countries, marking a historic landmark value in violence of Islam against Christians. Local progroms and masskillings of Christians in Africa, the southern tip of ther Arab peninsula, and SE Asia. The occasional quick kill-en-passant on the street not even mentioned - we all have our problems with street crime, don't we?

Comment on that, you Turkish wannabe Padisha-Emperor Erdoghan the Great, ruler over the Arabs and conquereor of Europe.

Really, this azz starts to piss me very very big time.

Okay mods, I know I know - but cursing and using strong language sometimes gives at least temporary relief.

Feuer Frei! · 01-29-11, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Cursing and using strong language sometimes gives at least temporary relief.

Unfortunately only temporary though

Schroeder · 01-29-11, 08:17 AM

We're not a Christian club, were a western club. Big difference for me.

Skybird · 01-29-11, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder

We're not a Christian club, were a western club. Big difference for me.

Even me (athgeist), even you are influenced by cultural traditions, historical developements basing and deeply rooting in the basis of asncient Greek philosphy and Judaic-Christain tradition, both in good and bad. What we benefit from today, grew in parts by beinbg fostered by this tradition, but also often gre due to bitter resistance to this tradition.

I am no Christian, nor am I a Greek, nevertheless both have had tremendous influence over me actually turning out to be this "me" that I am, especially intellectually, and value-wise.

Jimbuna · 01-29-11, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schroeder

We're not a Christian club, were a western club. Big difference for me.

Most definitely....I can only foresee problems if Turkey are allowed to join....who next?

Betonov · 01-29-11, 09:13 AM

you dont hear bosnia complaining and they're muslim

Gerald · 01-29-11, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betonov

you dont hear bosnia complaining and they're muslim

The country consists of only 40 percent believing Muslims, but to compare Bosnia and turkey can be made but the turkey has other problems that Bosnia not have

Skybird · 01-29-11, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

....who next?

In the EU, Marocco gets mentioned, also Lybia, Tunisia, also Israel.

None of that is in Europe, but who cares.

Once, there already were times when Europe thought of Africa has something like Europe.

Some even say Belarus and Russia itself. Russia - reaching from west of the Ural to Kamchatka and the Japanese Sea in the East. The Japanese Sea - a European border!

The megalomania anbd craving for attention by Eurocrats seems to be withouzt limits. Althoiugh they even cannot swallow what so far they already have bitten off - more! more! MORE...! Bigger!

Afghanistan could become a EU member too. Maybe it would not help the fight against terror - but it would allow politicians a big show in claiming so.

CaptainHaplo · 01-29-11, 10:39 AM

I could have sworn that the E in EU stood for EUROPEAN. Just a quick check of a map....

http://students.wsc.ma.edu/rpellicier5597/europe.html

Turkey is at best "EurAsian" - geographically 90% resides on the continent recognized as Asia. Half of the city of Istanbul is in Asia, the other half in Europe, split down the middle by the Bosphorus river. 10% (roughly) of the rest of the country is geographically in Europe.

Depending on where you go in Turkey, you could think you were in an Asian country, a Middle Eastern country, or a European country. However, appearances do not tell the story.

If it were my decision, Turkey would not be considered for a spot on the EU. They are not located in Europe, nor have they embraced European values. A country where the military must be on standby to keep the government secular isn't exactly to european civility standards. While Turkey can't move the river to change its geography, it can move its societal standards - and it consistently refuses to do so in ways that would reassure the member EU countries.

Edit: Dang skybird you beat me to it!

Schroeder · 01-29-11, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Even me (athgeist), even you are influenced by cultural traditions, historical developements basing and deeply rooting in the basis of asncient Greek philosphy and Judaic-Christain tradition, both in good and bad. What we benefit from today, grew in parts by beinbg fostered by this tradition, but also often gre due to bitter resistance to this tradition.

I am no Christian, nor am I a Greek, nevertheless both have had tremendous influence over me actually turning out to be this "me" that I am, especially intellectually, and value-wise.

I'm fully aware of that. But how many people are still believing Christians here? I'm not sure that it's a majority. The EU wasn't founded because of a religion that most countries have in common.

Armistead · 01-29-11, 12:08 PM

It's certainly not a christian issue, Europe is very secular, it's western culture of which christianity played a strong role once that offends them, thus it poses problems.

STEED · 01-29-11, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendor

"Open door policy is no longer there," he added.

What!

There not taking bribes these days?

How about Turkey signs off the EU books.

Growler · 01-29-11, 12:34 PM

Of course it's a Christian EU; if it weren't, then how could the Turks call to unite dissatisfied, disenfranchised, discriminated Muslims against the EU? Wait for it - they'll be pointing at the riots in France of a few years ago as further proof.

I mean, could their intent be any clearer?

01-29-11, 07:04 AM	#1
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Turkey warns EU becoming 'Christian club' Turkey's deputy prime minister complained on Saturday that the European Union was becoming an inward-looking "Christian club", slamming a lack of progress in his country's bid to join. Speaking on a panel at the World Economic Forum in Davos that included EU President Herman Van Rompuy, Ali Babacan said: "We always thought the EU is a big peace project... but then the enlargement process literally stalled. "Open door policy is no longer there," he added. "And one of the big themes about why Turkey cannot become a member of the European Union is because it is a Christian club. This is in our view very, very dangerous," he said. Beyond this, France's President Nicolas Sarkozy and Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel has expressed opposition to Turkey's bid.People in the Islamic world are looking closely at the EU to see whether it will open its doors to Turkey, said Babacan, also economy minister. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20110129...c-5268574.html Note: 2011.01.29 __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

01-29-11, 07:38 AM	#2
Feuer Frei! Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Valhalla Posts: 5,295 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 17	I think we need to also ask the question: Why does Turkey want to join the EU? The secular side wants in because Turkey risks falling into the theocratic muslim circle.The military wants in because it will keep turkey secular and modern. The current administration of Turkey says it wants in because they can use it to further there own agenda of a muslim state without the Military shutting them down. Now, Turkey started entry talks with the European Union five years ago, but negotiations on several policy areas have stalled or have been suspended because of Turkey's refusal to open its ports to trade with EU-member Cyprus as well as opposition in France and other European countries' to letting a populous, Muslim nation into the 27-nation bloc. It's actually interesting to point out that both the Orthodox Church in Turkey, along with the Syriacs and Armenian Apostolic Church are in favor of Turkey joining the EU. In a nutshell, the reason they are in favor of Turkish EU membership is that there will be leverage to force Turkey to live up to the constitutional guarantee, which has been part of the Turkish constitution since the republic was established, as well as a condition for EU membership, to grant religious freedom to all citizens. Hence, unlike Saudi Arabia, which constitutionally bans all religions except Islam, Turkey already, at least notionally, guarantess this first freedom. But how can Turkey join the EU without recognizing a member state (Cyprus) for instance? The suppresion of human rights is also a very big issue : why the orthodox patriarchate of Istanbul is not capable of training its own priests? The problem is in Turkey's imperialist attitude as evidenced in Cyprus, or the state run by the Generals who question the sovereignty of 2 EU member states, namely Greece and Cyprus for instance. Europe should not be asked to take a chance on Turkey. There is the Da'wa threat, and the demographic threat, for a start, both felt in Europe. __________________ "History is the lies that the victors agree on"- Napoleon LINK TO MY SH 3 MODS

01-29-11, 08:02 AM	#3
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	To hell with Erdoghan and Turkey. A racist, supremacist, cheating, split-tongued, bigmouthed bastard like him, propagating a totalitarian, inhumane ideology and call that barbarism a "peace" and a "freedom", while calling the demand that Turks should integrate if living in other countries a "crime against humanity", should not lecture others about "values". BTW, historically the cultural sphere of Europe IS a Judaic-Christian club, in all that was bad, but also, what in the modern era outshines the past, in all that became good. While Erdoghan once again shows what a two-faced a#####e he is, from Iran we get reports that mirror what wqas reported from Turkey early last year: Iran sees the biggest wave of persecutions of Christians currently since 70 years. Early last year, discrimination of Christian communities by turning legal schicanes against them, and sacking in the property they left behind when leaving or where not allowed to keep, reached a climax in Turkey. One year before that Egypt saw a massive attempt of supressing and driving out the Koptian Christians by killing their lifestocks and minimising or even preventing their financial compensations. The past 5 years have seen a huge grow in violent and massive persecution of Christian communities in most of the all Islamic countries, marking a historic landmark value in violence of Islam against Christians. Local progroms and masskillings of Christians in Africa, the southern tip of ther Arab peninsula, and SE Asia. The occasional quick kill-en-passant on the street not even mentioned - we all have our problems with street crime, don't we? Comment on that, you Turkish wannabe Padisha-Emperor Erdoghan the Great, ruler over the Arabs and conquereor of Europe. Really, this azz starts to piss me very very big time. Okay mods, I know I know - but cursing and using strong language sometimes gives at least temporary relief. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-29-11, 08:17 AM	#5
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	We're not a Christian club, were a western club. Big difference for me. __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.

01-29-11, 10:39 AM	#11
CaptainHaplo Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,404 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	I could have sworn that the E in EU stood for EUROPEAN. Just a quick check of a map.... http://students.wsc.ma.edu/rpellicier5597/europe.html Turkey is at best "EurAsian" - geographically 90% resides on the continent recognized as Asia. Half of the city of Istanbul is in Asia, the other half in Europe, split down the middle by the Bosphorus river. 10% (roughly) of the rest of the country is geographically in Europe. Depending on where you go in Turkey, you could think you were in an Asian country, a Middle Eastern country, or a European country. However, appearances do not tell the story. If it were my decision, Turkey would not be considered for a spot on the EU. They are not located in Europe, nor have they embraced European values. A country where the military must be on standby to keep the government secular isn't exactly to european civility standards. While Turkey can't move the river to change its geography, it can move its societal standards - and it consistently refuses to do so in ways that would reassure the member EU countries. Edit: Dang skybird you beat me to it! __________________ Good Hunting! Captain Haplo

01-29-11, 09:13 AM	#8
Betonov Navy Seal Join Date: May 2009 Location: Slovenia Posts: 8,647 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	you dont hear bosnia complaining and they're muslim

01-29-11, 12:08 PM	#13
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	It's certainly not a christian issue, Europe is very secular, it's western culture of which christianity played a strong role once that offends them, thus it poses problems.

01-29-11, 12:34 PM	#15
Growler A long way from the sea Join Date: May 2005 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,913 Downloads: 21 Uploads: 0	Of course it's a Christian EU; if it weren't, then how could the Turks call to unite dissatisfied, disenfranchised, discriminated Muslims against the EU? Wait for it - they'll be pointing at the riots in France of a few years ago as further proof. I mean, could their intent be any clearer? __________________ At Fiddler’s Green, where seamen true When here they’ve done their duty The bowl of grog shall still renew And pledge to love and beauty.