torpedoes going behind target

[tmdgm]

I've been playing sh4 for ~4 months now and my torps always go behind where i'm aiming. Most times I miss the ship entirely (yes, i open the torp doors).

I think the speed calc is off using 2 stadiometer readings and then the speed/course calc.

[razark]

Try getting speed by marking the target on the map, waiting three minutes, and marking it again. Every 100 yards traveled equals 1 knot. (700 yards = 7 knots, 1200 yards = 12 knots, etc.)

The automatic speed/course can be wrong if you get a bad stadimeter range.

[tmdgm]

Originally Posted by razark

Try getting speed by marking the target on the map, waiting three minutes, and marking it again. Every 100 yards traveled equals 1 knot. (700 yards = 7 knots, 1200 yards = 12 knots, etc.)

The automatic speed/course can be wrong if you get a bad stadimeter range.

I'm starting to think it may be a combination of speed and range (bad stadiomter readings). Cuz I do use the nav map as i have map contacts turned on, and sometimes cheat on the speed using the contacts marks and time between marks, i never really double check the range with the navmap. When i use the navmap and cheat on the speed, i still end up shooting behind. I was starting to think the ships suddenly speed up, which is possible, but not all the time.

Just getting frustrated watching my torps go behind every single time. I've played SH3 with OLC GUI and never had this many consistent bad shots.

Currently using RFB and RSRD.

thx for letting me vent.

[yubba]

Practice, practice. 1 foot per sec = 0.59248 knots 1 Meter per Second = 1.9438444924406046 Knot use a sonar ping for range check your torp depth.

[Armistead]

It's possible ships do speed up. Start shooting spreads from the front towards the back or try adjusting speed up about .5-1kt for the first shot if within 2000 yards, then adjust back down to your correct speed setting. That will usually hold the ship in place from speeding up. You will still probably get a hit. Study the thread skipper bag of tricks and learn to shoot by the wire at parts of ships.

Another helpful tool for stad measurments is Maxoptics and SCAF mod. You get better magnification and easier stad marking points, instead of using the highest mast, you often use funnels, decks, ect..as marking points.

Using the 3 minute rule isn't a cheat. This is basically the same info those on plot would be using, we just have to do it a lil different because we lack some sub function and tools.

[razark]

I'd suggest firing a spread. Not only does it give you a better chance at hitting a target, it's realistic. Sub skippers didn't have a way to check their speed, range, and AoB estimates easily, they didn't have complete or even accurate information on their target, and firing a spread was a good way to maximize the chance of getting a hit.

I remember reading something about the doctrine being used. They would estimate the length of the target, determine the spread for one and a half the target length, and fire the spread. It guarantees that there will be some misses, but the chance of getting a hit is greater.

[tmdgm]

Originally Posted by razark

I'd suggest firing a spread. Not only does it give you a better chance at hitting a target, it's realistic. Sub skippers didn't have a way to check their speed, range, and AoB estimates easily, they didn't have complete or even accurate information on their target, and firing a spread was a good way to maximize the chance of getting a hit.

I remember reading something about the doctrine being used. They would estimate the length of the target, determine the spread for one and a half the target length, and fire the spread. It guarantees that there will be some misses, but the chance of getting a hit is greater.

Thx for the advice. It's frustrating cuz i never had this problem in sh3...ever. So i'm struggling to figure out what i'm doin wrong.

On the ping for range, won't that alert the escorts?

On the spreads, I am firing spreads, i've gotten to the point i'm firing all my torps in front of the target, but last night i only went 5 deg max to the left (ship was moving from right to left) and counted down by 1 deg per torp. Next time, i'm goin 15, 10, 5 and maybe 2.

I'm probably thinking i'm not going to use the stad meter, i might just use the nav map and manually enter ranges and speed. I have done that for speed (the 3 min rule), just not range.

where do you usually set the depth of the torp? Last night, the keel for the ship i was targeting was 24 feet. I set the torp depth to 10-15 feet. I do swear one was going to hit on aft of the ship and went underneath.

And finally, on another note, in RFB is there a way to ID the ship? There was in FOTRS, but that button is gone in RFB. I do like realism...to a point. I'd prefer to have a weapons officer ID the ship.

Thx for all your help.

[razark]

Originally Posted by tmdgm

Thx for the advice. It's frustrating cuz i never had this problem in sh3...ever. So i'm struggling to figure out what i'm doin wrong.

Heh. I tried manual targeting in SH3 once. Never managed to hit anything.

You might try one of these methods:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...&postcount=204
That's how I got started in manual targeting. Set it up right, and range doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by tmdgm

On the ping for range, won't that alert the escorts?

I would think so, but I never use it. Perhaps someone else can better answer that.

Originally Posted by tmdgm

On the spreads, I am firing spreads, i've gotten to the point i'm firing all my torps in front of the target, but last night i only went 5 deg max to the left (ship was moving from right to left) and counted down by 1 deg per torp. Next time, i'm goin 15, 10, 5 and maybe 2.

Yeah, sounds like your data is a bit off. Practice, practice, practice. Try using the stadimeter and checking your data on the attack map screen until you feel very comfortable doing it.

Originally Posted by tmdgm

I'm probably thinking i'm not going to use the stad meter, i might just use the nav map and manually enter ranges and speed. I have done that for speed (the 3 min rule), just not range.

That should work, at least enough for you to hit the target. The map tools can be a bit inaccurate.

Originally Posted by tmdgm

where do you usually set the depth of the torp? Last night, the keel for the ship i was targeting was 24 feet. I set the torp depth to 10-15 feet. I do swear one was going to hit on aft of the ship and went underneath.

I'm usually playing early war, so I set my torpedoes to run as shallow as possible. Either set the depth to minimum, or leave it at the default depth.

Originally Posted by tmdgm

And finally, on another note, in RFB is there a way to ID the ship? There was in FOTRS, but that button is gone in RFB. I do like realism...to a point. I'd prefer to have a weapons officer ID the ship.

Thx for all your help.

Not sure on that one. I play TMO, and haven't touched RFB in a long time.

[Armistead]

Pinging will alert escorts, the higher the crew rating, the further away they will come a looking for you. I was pinged a carrier group from long range that I coudn't see...and a few minutes later escorts were coming towards my submerged position...

Also if you're playing stock the range wheel is limited, maybe 1500 yards. Not sure about RFB.

Start checking your attack map. If contacts are on, you should see a black hash, that is the mark of attack based on your info. If you have the PK on, adjust until the black hash is on the target and moving with it. That will at least show you your set up is good. If the black hash is beyond the target, you know range is off. Obvious, you need the scope of for a visual.
Not sure if RFB allows this closer in.

[TorpX]

tmdgm:

From what you describe I can think of 3 possibilities:

1. Are you sure the TDC is on? The GSP light must be on for it to calculate a firing solution.
2. The range, speed, AoB data on the dials must be entered by pressing the right button otherwise it won't be used by the TDC.
3. The speed estimates given by the crew are just that - estimates. The same goes for the target marker on the map. It is possible to enter all the data the crew provides correctly and still miss.

BTW, the torp depth is set on the slide out panel at the left of the periscope. Hope this helps.

[tmdgm]

i'm sorry guys, i've EFFFN had it with this game. I just played again, came across a merchant. I have map contacts on so I can see his ship on my map with scope up. I calc 8 knots marking the distance and measuring time, using the chart on the right side. Didn't even use stadimeter. Enter in range, AOB as i have his course and put in 8 knots. I push the red button on TDC. All torps at min depth. Open all doors.

First torp at 10deg to right (target moving left to right). Second torp at 5 deg to right. Third torp at 0 deg. Last torp at 2 deg left. Guess what. They all go in front of the EFFN ship!!! I throw things and quit.

i replay again exact same scenerio. except this time I take marks more often as i want to see if his speed is changing. He's goin 8 knots, no wait, he's goin 10 knots, then he's goin 6 knots. I'm convinced he's changing speed at 3 min intervals. Remember I have map contacts on, scope up so I can see the contact accurately, and this is at night so should be tough to see my scope. This speed change happen more than i think.

Same ritual as above, I kept in 8 knots in tdc. Hit the red button to track. All doors open. First torp 5 deg to right, second and third torps at 0 deg, fourth at 5 deg to left.

They ALL GO EFFN BEHIND!!!!! WTF???? This is insane. I'm convinced i have a bug or a bad install (using RFB). I can't even consistently miss in the same direction with map contacts on. Don't ask me how you play this game with map contacts off. How is this even remotely possible to miss in opposite directions with the same speed in tdc?!?! Unless the merchant is drastically changing speed!!!

I was ~400-500 yds from target both times firing the torps. Confirmed on nav map and on TDC. AOB was good. Both times had 8 knots, exact same EFFN ship in the exact same scenario.

I did for kicks try checking the stadiometer, looks like it's 200-300 yds off nav map, altho the RFB scope sucks and is hard to line up to the bottom of the ship. Like I said, how you play this game without map contacts on is beyond me. And it does seem like the merchant is rapidly changing speeds. That's the only thing that could possibly be off to cause me to miss at first fore, then aft. And I've NEVER EVER had anything near this in SH3 using GWX and OLC GUI.

Maybe TMO is better, but for now, I'm heading back to SH3, unless i can think of something dumb and obvious, but only thing i can see is the merchant is going from 6 to 10 knots on 2 min intervals. Again sorry for my tantrum but eff this!!

[sharkbit]

The basic principle is the same whether you play SH3 or SH4. The only real difference is the TDC's. That was the biggest thing I had trouble getting my head around when I first started playing SH4 after SH3. After much practice, the little light bulb has come on and I enjoy SH4 quite a bit.
I have noticed ships changing speeds but not near as often as you have said. It is frustrating but I've never read a book about the US boats in the Pacific(or any other submarines in any other theater) that there wasn't any frustration on the skipper's/kaluen's part.

I would suggest using the mission editor to set up some target practice. Set up one or two ships in the middle of nowhere, prewar so they don't panic when they see you, at a set speed. Put yourself ahead of and perpindicular to their track and practice, practice, practice.
Now you don't have to worry about speed changes, the target taking evasive manuevers, being attacked, etc.
You can change variables such as speed, range, and AOB as you wish as you gain experience.

Good luck and don't give up yet.

[Rockin Robbins]

If you'd run us through your targeting procedure step-by-step we could get you on target. I'll bet you're entering data into the TDC in the wrong order. That will cause you to miss aft of the target every time.

But before I spew out a bunch of inappropriate advice I need to know what you're doing...

[NorthBeach]

Are you making sure to hit the "Send To TDC" button TWICE when entering data?

[tmdgm]

Originally Posted by NorthBeach

Are you making sure to hit the "Send To TDC" button TWICE when entering data?

Sorry fellas for the tirade above. Needed some R+R after that last patrol.

Good idea on practice mission, however I've actually done one of the single missions several times and became quite good at hitting the same target over and over again (or so I thought). I seem to be having troubles in the campaigns.

(Whispering to NorthBeach) ...umm...you have to hit the button twice???

Here's my basic procedures when I use the stadimeter only, done this method countless times:

1) Take a range reading using stadimeter, click the send to tdc button (click only once). Verify the range updated on the left tdc window.
2) Take second range reading using stadmeter, click the send to tdc button (click only once). Verify the range updated on the left tdc window.
3) Go to speed calc and click on the button where it estimates speed.
4) Once speed (and course) is calc'd, I click send to tdc (click only once). THis is assuming the speed calc is fairly close to what I estimated on nav map. If it's not, I enter my own speed from the 3 min rule and hit send to tdc. Verify the speed updated on the left tdc window.
5) I go to angle on bow and adjust the ship to match the calc'd course on the left picture. Click send to tdc (click only once). Verify the AOB updates on the tdc window.
6) I then hit the red button to start tracking

7) As the ship gets closer, I will redo step 1 for range and sometimes double check step 5 for AOB.
8) I set torp depths
9) After final repeat of step 1 for range, I open torp doors, adjust torp angle left or right. Target is locked in sight.
10) Fire

I think that's all of em.

I only just did manual range (not stadmeter) entry once or twice. Basically the same steps above except I get the range from the nav map. I only click send to tdc once.

So at least from your comments, sounds like there may be something i'm doing wrong, which is great cuz at least there's something i can try again.