Virginia federal court rules Obamacare unconstitutional

GoldenRivet · 12-13-10, 02:03 PM

Discuss

Freiwillige · 12-13-10, 02:13 PM

Its not rocket science. The federal government has a job, this was not one of them.

FIREWALL · 12-13-10, 02:33 PM

This will be dumped onto the next Presidents plate.

Takeda Shingen · 12-13-10, 02:34 PM

It would seem that a Virginia Federal Court ruled 'Obamacare' unconstitutional.

Bubblehead1980 · 12-13-10, 02:59 PM

Great news.Perhaps one day we will get a real health care reform law in this country that respects citizen's rights.

Bilge_Rat · 12-13-10, 04:55 PM

so far, you have had two federal judges who ruled it was constitutional and one federal judge who ruled it was unconstitutional, so this is headed to the Supreme Court one way or another. More importantly, Judge Hudson refused to block the rollout of the law.

There was an interesting article a few days ago on the head lawyer at Justice heading the Health care fight:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/he...d=1&ref=policy

GoldenRivet · 12-13-10, 04:58 PM

i dont think a lot of the law should be blocked.

just the mandate.

ditch the mandate dems, and it looks like we have a deal... but what we had from our government was an uncompromising bill, passed in the dead of night after a speed reading short course rocketed it through the legislative process.

regardless of the content of the bill... i dont see how ANY American could be comfortable with any of that.

keep in mind, there are still scores of outstanding lawsuits to be heard in numerous states... and it still has to go to the blow hards at the "supreme" court

Platapus · 12-13-10, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

It would seem that a Virginia Federal Court ruled 'Obamacare' unconstitutional.

Not really. Only one provision was judged to be unconstitutional.

It will go before the supreme court and will have a pretty good chance of being upheld (being unconstitutional).

This was an area that the Democrats went into when they shouldn't have.

We really don't want the precedent to be set that would allow the federal government to mandate the purchase of a commercial product/service.

Takeda Shingen · 12-13-10, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

Not really. Only one provision was judged to be unconstitutional.

It will go before the supreme court and will have a pretty good chance of being upheld (being unconstitutional).

This was an area that the Democrats went into when they shouldn't have.

We really don't want the precedent to be set that would allow the federal government to mandate the purchase of a commercial product/service.

Hey, I was given no link or information other than the title and an order to discuss, so I did my best with what I had available.

tater · 12-13-10, 07:46 PM

Of course minus the mandate, there is nothing there except massive unintended consequences (which the bill was already full of).

The whole point of forcing people to buy is to increase the pool of payees that are unlikely to use care (young adults—a patient population that is very well served with nothing but inexpensive catastrophic care coverage for trauma).

No mandate, plus dumb things like no denial or even raised rates for preexisting conditions means bankruptcy for insurance. Insurance margins (health insurance, anyway, I think they do well on life insurance) are actually not high. Total insurance profit is 1-2% of total healthcare cost, and ~50% of the total is not "insured, so that makes insurance profit 2-4%. With no mandate, they don't have loads of healthy people forced to pay premiums, but they still have to insure very bad risks at the same rate as the healthy. That's like charging someone the exact same premium for a Smart Car as a Bugatti Veyron.

The mandate was always a really bad idea. It wasn't just dems in favor of mandates, BTW, even though they own this entire bill. Some R plans that never left committee also had mandates as I recall. It's terrible law, IMO. The government could by the same precedent require people to buy X pounds of veggies per week, for example. No difference at all.

yubba · 12-13-10, 08:48 PM

All right, one for the good guys.

gimpy117 · 12-13-10, 09:39 PM

Of course a court in VIRGINIA would rule it "unconstitutional" ironically it's basically the republicans bill with he whole mandate part

tater · 12-13-10, 09:42 PM

It's a federal judge.

This bill has no "republican" parts at all, the dems own it, even if the reps had similar requirements in other bills. they had supermajority, it was 100% their choice what was in, and they took no input at all from the other side.

The government should GTF out of healthcare, frankly. yes, that means I think they should dump medicare and medicaid. The former is going to bankrupt the country unless dumped. Period.

papa_smurf · 12-14-10, 12:21 PM

Its so good to see American democracy in action

Sailor Steve · 12-14-10, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Hey, I was given no link or information other than the title and an order to discuss, so I did my best with what I had available.

I noticed that, and thought you did quite well indeed.

12-13-10, 02:03 PM	#1
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	Virginia federal court rules Obamacare unconstitutional Discuss __________________

12-13-10, 02:33 PM	#3
FIREWALL Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CATALINA IS. SO . CAL USA Posts: 10,108 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	This will be dumped onto the next Presidents plate. __________________ RIP FIREWALL I Play GWX. Silent Hunter Who ???

12-13-10, 04:55 PM	#6
Bilge_Rat Silent Hunter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: standing watch... Posts: 3,855 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	so far, you have had two federal judges who ruled it was constitutional and one federal judge who ruled it was unconstitutional, so this is headed to the Supreme Court one way or another. More importantly, Judge Hudson refused to block the rollout of the law. There was an interesting article a few days ago on the head lawyer at Justice heading the Health care fight: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/he...d=1&ref=policy __________________

12-13-10, 04:58 PM	#7
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	i dont think a lot of the law should be blocked. just the mandate. ditch the mandate dems, and it looks like we have a deal... but what we had from our government was an uncompromising bill, passed in the dead of night after a speed reading short course rocketed it through the legislative process. regardless of the content of the bill... i dont see how ANY American could be comfortable with any of that. keep in mind, there are still scores of outstanding lawsuits to be heard in numerous states... and it still has to go to the blow hards at the "supreme" court __________________

12-13-10, 09:39 PM	#12
gimpy117 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 3,243 Downloads: 108 Uploads: 0	Of course a court in VIRGINIA would rule it "unconstitutional" ironically it's basically the republicans bill with he whole mandate part __________________ Member of the Subsim Zombie Army

12-13-10, 02:13 PM	#2
Freiwillige The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Phx. Az Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Its not rocket science. The federal government has a job, this was not one of them.

12-13-10, 02:34 PM	#4
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	It would seem that a Virginia Federal Court ruled 'Obamacare' unconstitutional.

12-13-10, 02:59 PM	#5
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,099 Downloads: 605 Uploads: 44	Great news.Perhaps one day we will get a real health care reform law in this country that respects citizen's rights.

12-13-10, 07:46 PM	#10
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Of course minus the mandate, there is nothing there except massive unintended consequences (which the bill was already full of). The whole point of forcing people to buy is to increase the pool of payees that are unlikely to use care (young adults—a patient population that is very well served with nothing but inexpensive catastrophic care coverage for trauma). No mandate, plus dumb things like no denial or even raised rates for preexisting conditions means bankruptcy for insurance. Insurance margins (health insurance, anyway, I think they do well on life insurance) are actually not high. Total insurance profit is 1-2% of total healthcare cost, and ~50% of the total is not "insured, so that makes insurance profit 2-4%. With no mandate, they don't have loads of healthy people forced to pay premiums, but they still have to insure very bad risks at the same rate as the healthy. That's like charging someone the exact same premium for a Smart Car as a Bugatti Veyron. The mandate was always a really bad idea. It wasn't just dems in favor of mandates, BTW, even though they own this entire bill. Some R plans that never left committee also had mandates as I recall. It's terrible law, IMO. The government could by the same precedent require people to buy X pounds of veggies per week, for example. No difference at all.

12-13-10, 08:48 PM	#11
yubba Admiral Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: in a neighborhood near you Posts: 2,478 Downloads: 293 Uploads: 2	All right, one for the good guys.

12-13-10, 09:42 PM	#13
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	It's a federal judge. This bill has no "republican" parts at all, the dems own it, even if the reps had similar requirements in other bills. they had supermajority, it was 100% their choice what was in, and they took no input at all from the other side. The government should GTF out of healthcare, frankly. yes, that means I think they should dump medicare and medicaid. The former is going to bankrupt the country unless dumped. Period.

12-14-10, 12:21 PM	#14
papa_smurf Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: High Peak, Derbyshire Posts: 2,851 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Its so good to see American democracy in action __________________