History is written by the victor

[Krauter]

My question is this;

Obviously, every history lesson we learn is a little subjective merely because we're getting one side of the story (mainly the victors side saying "those guys are villains, yadda yadda yadda and we won and kicked their @ss..).

Now we've all seen and loved shows and movies depicting the Allies (mostly American) in World War Two. Now I understand this, as the main producer is located in America, main target audience is Americans.

BUT, we see submarine depictions of BOTH sides (of the Atlantic) in movies like U-5?? (bloody hell its late..), Das Boot, Run Silent Run Deep, etc.

My question is this, based on the fact that there are submarine movies depicting both allied and german efforts during the war, why is there (or if there is, why have i never heard of it ) movies depicting the actions of the Wehrmacht and (dare I say it) SS *Panzer Corps*. Obviously I'm not interested in it for any attrocities they've done, but I'm wondering on this late night why there are no movies depicting the combat prowess of Wehrmacht, Fallschrimjager, and any other German troops during WW2?

What are your thoughts on this?

[VipertheSniper]

I honestly tried to write an answer, but it's pretty hard thinking outside that box, that was built around us with all those movies. The only thing I can imagine is, that you'd have to find a well known operation that was a success, but didn't acchieve all it's goals, which in turn bit the Germans in the ass... So I guess the Run to Dunkirk from the German side would be something that could be done, but the Germans overrunning France or Poland, from the German side, don't think that's gonna happen.

[I-25]

look up the movie Stalingrad

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalingrad_%28film%29

[Penguin]

Not an uninteresting topic, I must say.

If you are only talking about films then I can recommend you some - besides the already mentioned Stalingrad (watch it! good movie!)
Cross of Iron from 1977 shows some combat on the Eastern Front from the perspective of an ordinary german Unteroffizier.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Iron (warning: spoilers in the plot section)

Its sucessor, Breakthrough, takes part on the Western Front, shortly before the Allied landings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakthrough_%28film%29

Then there is the classic movie "Die Brücke" (The Bridge). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Br%C3%BCcke_%28film%29 Not much combat there, but a very impressive film taking part in the last days of the war and showing the attempt of indoctrinated teenage soldiers to defend a bridge against the approchaing Americans. A very immersive and impressive film. Watch out however, there has been made a remake some years ago: don't even think about watching it!

And if you want to see the (always ) winning Wehrmachtm, then there are of course a lot of "Wochenschau" out on the video platform of your choice.

If you are talking about books then there has been a lot of stuff coming out in the last two decades, mainly about the fate of the ordinary German civilians, but also some good books written from the perspective of normal soldiers. These issues have been covered before only by reactionary/neonazi writers and so the intention of these books is that we can't let these morons dominate the "research" of this topic, but cover in from a neutral point of view.

If you are interested I will have to look up which books have been translated into English or French and can get back to you. Some popular writings are available by the amateur historian Guido Knopp, they may be a good way to start.

Personally I would really like to see some stuff from the view of the Japanese, but there seems to be a deficit on books covering this - and a political motivated lack of will to work up their history.

[VipertheSniper]

Oh I can't believe how I forgot this... there's a trilogy that is basically about the whole war from a German perspective, but I doubt it's available in English, maybe with subtitles: "08/15". Made in the 50's or I think, b/w.

Link to the first part on imdb
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046671/

Not much info apart from this review:

Originally Posted by Review of the 1st Part on imdb

This movie isn't actually a war movie but covers the life of German conscripts on the eve of the second world war. They are in the hands of ruthless and sadistic NCOs who are constantly trying to impose harsh measures against the men. The officers on the contrary are shown much more civilized and see themselves somehow as a father-figure. The tension between the privates and their superiors forms hard bonds of friendship between them, although they come from very different social backgrounds. Private Vierbein and Gefreiter Asch are the two protagonists of this film. Vierbein is a sensible piano-player that detests the rudeness and the lack of privacy in the barracks. However he is deeply in love with Asch's sister, who is a full-propagandized Nazi-BDM-girl and demands of him to become an officer. In this tension, he attempts suicide on the shooting range but is hindered by Asch. With Vierbeins stolen ammunition and deep knowledge of the internal processes, the practical and clever Asch is able to land a brilliant coup and to get his nasty superiors all removed from the unit. The film ends with the beginning of the second world war. Many stereotypes about the different ranks were included in the film and in some cases they were played out excessively. Still many German soldiers may find similarities from some of their own experience.

the 2nd Part is about the war (winter 1941/42 on the Eastern Front)
the 3rd Part about coming home

[GoldenRivet]

I think the kriegsmarine gets so many movies because if i remember correctly, they were the only branch of service that was never required to adopt a lot of the NAZI ideology

[heartc]

Originally Posted by Penguin

Personally I would really like to see some stuff from the view of the Japanese, but there seems to be a deficit on books covering this - and a political motivated lack of will to work up their history.

Well, no books here, but in the way of movies, check out this one (maybe you've seen it already):



It's unfortunately a very poor quality upload. At one point, there was a HD version up on youtube, which is when I watched it. I could only find this low quality one now - seems like the other version was removed on copyright grounds.
It's a very well made movie I think. Granted, it's not a Japanese movie, but an American one directed by Clint Eastwood (who imho is a great actor and film director). So I don't know if it would qualify your demand for "the Japanese view." But Eastwood tried to portray it from that perspective and I think it is done very well.


Or try this one (which I haven't seen in full yet, and afaik it's not in full on youtube, either):

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Krauter

BUT, we see submarine depictions of BOTH sides (of the Atlantic) in movies like U-5?? (bloody hell its late..), Das Boot, Run Silent Run Deep, etc.

Run Silent, Run Deep was the Pacific, and only from the American Perspective.

You are most likely thinking of The Enemy Below.

BTW I loved Cross of Iron, its a German Perspective movie.

The only other one I can remember seeing (Other than Das Boot) was Tom Cruse's Valkyrie. Which wasn't too bad.

[Krauter]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Run Silent, Run Deep was the Pacific, and only from the American Perspective.

You are most likely thinking of The Enemy Below.

BTW I loved Cross of Iron, its a German Perspective movie.

The only other one I can remember seeing (Other than Das Boot) was Tom Cruse's Valkyrie. Which wasn't too bad.

Sorry I was just naming any submarines that came to mind at the time.

[kranz]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109779/ maybe not related with "German point of view" that much, but surely with "history is written by the victor"
you have also Die Gustlof, a german production, but it's not even worth posting a link to imdb.

Sorry but for me The Cross of Iron has nothing to do with a german point of view. At least in comparison to Stalingrad for example. I'm not saying that only germans can make good films about german army but the way Peckinpah made that story is just too "western-like".
One more imba movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0363163/ fully based on J.Fest's idea of what happened in the bunker.

[Gorduz]

All quiet on the western front:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0020629/

Yes I know wrong war, but still had to be mentioned

[Growler]

Originally Posted by Gorduz

All quiet on the western front:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0020629/

Yes I know wrong war, but still had to be mentioned

Good choice, nonetheless. Book trumps the movie, but the movie was still pretty decent.

[frau kaleun]

Japanese movies about WWII:

Fires on the Plain

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053121/


The Human Condition (actually a trilogy):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hum..._(film_trilogy)

[August]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Japanese movies about WWII:

Fires on the Plain

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053121/


The Human Condition (actually a trilogy):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Human_Condition_(film_trilogy)

Made by Americans but told from the Japanese POV:
Letters from Iwo Jima
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letters_from_Iwo_Jima

[I-25]

here's more

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamato_%28film%29 <- thats a good one

http://eiga.wikia.com/wiki/Sea_Without_Exit

i'm big on everything japanese