Perspective from a complete newbie :(

poetic hunter · 09-06-10, 11:51 PM

Alright guys, I hope someone out there reads this thread carefully and understands the point I'm trying to make here.

----------------------------------------

I am not attacking the game. In fact, I am absolutely intrigued by this game and want to learn more.

--------------------------------------------

However, this game is not very newbie friendly.

This is even more of an issue because it's very hard for veterans like you guys to understand what I mean by that.

Let me explain:

I have already read many previous threads here including the big sticky thread above for new players.

But one problem still remains: Even though you guys are very helpful, it seems like the help you give makes more sense to a veteran than to a complete newbie. Do you understand what I'm trying to say here? Thus, it is still difficult for a complete newbie to get into this game.

For example, let's start with the academy lesson # 1 Navigation. The video tutorial was practically useless. It took me hours and hours to try to pass that navigation examination (even though it's so simple), and the only way I found a solution was by using information that the in-game help doesn't give you. I had to pay close attention to the radio messages, and do everything just right. I don't know how someone who is a complete newbie could figure out how to finish that navigation tutorial without stumbling across outside help like that.

Now, let's move on to firing the torpedo. That is easy enough in automatic mode. Point and shoot. But when it comes to manually firing the torpedo, the video tutorial was completely useless

. The video guides I found online move so fast and the way they talk it seems like the information they give would make more sense to someone already familiar. But to a complete newbie it is still very confusing.
------------------

Does anyone else understand the point I was trying to make here?

I'm saying that while there is help available, the help seems like it makes more sense to veterans than to complete newbies. That's just not good.

---------------

I am willing to do the dirty work here and learn more about this game (particularly intercepting and manual TCD), and then re-translate it back into a language that complete newbies would be able to understand.

I know how hard it is for a completely new player to dive into this game.

But I would need help to be able to do this translation for newbies. Thus I started this thread.

Gerald · 09-06-10, 11:59 PM

And of course you will get the help you need,what it is now one may be

poetic hunter · 09-07-10, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendor

And of course you will get the help you need,what it is now one may be

Thanks for welcoming me. I suppose the first thing to work on would be understanding Navigation, the F5 map screen and how to intercept a moving target. There is a thread called "The Hunt" which is amazing and explains this very well. But it is very technical, and detailed, and it seems to assume that you already posses certain knowledge. Sometimes, it is possible for help to be too detailed.

U777 · 09-07-10, 12:36 AM

I suggest trying the navel academy. Wilkommen

poetic hunter · 09-07-10, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by U777

I suggest trying the navel academy.

I did...and that's the problem! As I explained in that long post, the tutorial videos are useless, and some of the academy lessons are still difficult to complete for a new player because many things aren't explained at all. There is help available online, but much of it seems geared towards people who are already familiar and not for complete newbies.

Gerald · 09-07-10, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poetic hunter

Thanks for welcoming me. I suppose the first thing to work on would be understanding Navigation, the F5 map screen and how to intercept a moving target. There is a thread called "The Hunt" which is amazing and explains this very well. But it is very technical, and detailed, and it seems to assume that you already posses certain knowledge. Sometimes, it is possible for help to be too detailed.

and how are you supposed to put up your strategy,here is a link to some of your concerns..

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=96026

09-07-10, 01:19 AM

Welcome aboard!
I would suggest that you stop "trying to get your feet wet", and just "dive in".
You do, in fact, have a "life preserver", in that you can begin a new carreer following any "fatal" mistakes. Consider it to be your training period, and you have much to learn.

Just select the highest "Realism Level" you feel comfortable with, and start a (training) patrol. Whether you go to the assigned patrol grid, or not, is entirely up to you, as your objective is to learn.

Learning the basics of safe Navigation and Ship Handling should be your primary goal.
I recommend the Weapons Officer as a fine instructor. Ask him to identify the contact, and provide a solution. Use all the information provided in that solution to decide how to avoid a collision with that vessel (if friendly), or how to evade (if hostile). Write down any questions which may arise, and if you haven't stumbled on the answer by the end of the patrol, post the question here.

Raise the "Realism Level", and extend the training patrol length as you see fit. You'll know when you're ready for the real Patrol 1. Experiment. Don't be afraid to make mistakes. That's how we all learned.

(I recommend that you not mod your game before becoming familiar with the stock version, and being able to logicaly form a judgement on what more you do, and don't want out of your game.)

timmy41 · 09-07-10, 01:22 AM

GWX3 comes with a several hundred page manual, all of which is useful!
dont worry, half the pages are illustrations or space
i read the whole thing before getting in to the game, and i refer back to it very often. read it even if you arent going to use the mod.
its very interesting, even if one would not play the game at all as it has a lot of history in it.
there are many suggested tactics in it that should be ones rule of thumb in many situations.
but most importantly of all, practice! even if you feel like a fool doing it, just get your uboot and navigate the baltic and go in circles and whatnot. get used to the tools. find a neutral ship and learn how to plot it, then find another and submerge and learn how to plot it, then another, and learn how to plot it using the hydrophones!

dont be discouraged if its hard, ive been playing for months and im still only mediocre at gathering target information. i learn a new thing every time i come here, and the odd things i learned here have saved my life more than once!
also, learn the shortcuts to commands, youll just inherently learn them eventually. it makes the game that much easier when you dont have to click on every little thing.

oh and be more aggressive! :P

HW3 · 09-07-10, 01:50 AM

Welcome poetic hunter! If ever we give an answer that you do not understand, just say so, and we will try again to give an answer that makes sense to you. Remember, we all were newbies once.

flag4 · 09-07-10, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poetic hunter

Alright guys, I hope someone out there reads this thread carefully and understands the point I'm trying to make here.

----------------------------------------

I am not attacking the game. In fact, I am absolutely intrigued by this game and want to learn more.

--------------------------------------------

However, this game is not very newbie friendly.

This is even more of an issue because it's very hard for veterans like you guys to understand what I mean by that.

Let me explain:

I have already read many previous threads here including the big sticky thread above for new players.

But one problem still remains: Even though you guys are very helpful, it seems like the help you give makes more sense to a veteran than to a complete newbie. Do you understand what I'm trying to say here? Thus, it is still difficult for a complete newbie to get into this game.

For example, let's start with the academy lesson # 1 Navigation. The video tutorial was practically useless. It took me hours and hours to try to pass that navigation examination (even though it's so simple), and the only way I found a solution was by using information that the in-game help doesn't give you. I had to pay close attention to the radio messages, and do everything just right. I don't know how someone who is a complete newbie could figure out how to finish that navigation tutorial without stumbling across outside help like that.

Now, let's move on to firing the torpedo. That is easy enough in automatic mode. Point and shoot. But when it comes to manually firing the torpedo, the video tutorial was completely useless

. The video guides I found online move so fast and the way they talk it seems like the information they give would make more sense to someone already familiar. But to a complete newbie it is still very confusing.
------------------

Does anyone else understand the point I was trying to make here?

I'm saying that while there is help available, the help seems like it makes more sense to veterans than to complete newbies. That's just not good.

---------------

I am willing to do the dirty work here and learn more about this game (particularly intercepting and manual TCD), and then re-translate it back into a language that complete newbies would be able to understand.

I know how hard it is for a completely new player to dive into this game.

But I would need help to be able to do this translation for newbies. Thus I started this thread.

...hello poetic hunter.

first, dont panik, dont worry. for example, my son is 10yrs old. and last weekend he took his first command and he is heading out towards BF13. he has no real idea but we are not rushing. at the moment he loves crash diving and i have to remind him to make sure there is enough water under him for this. he will learn as he goes. i have the settings on easy for him. he will start with point and shoot and hopefully BOOOOM. this will increase his confidence. we have watched 'DAS BOOT' the famous u boat film so he has seen a little of what it was like in real life, including depth charging. he thinks he can evade the Destroyers!! ( i like his confidence!!)

so, keep things simple ie; the settings. go about in your boat and get used to the workings of it. dont give up with the naval academy. if you are not too good on one element go to another - i loved the deck gun. and yes the navigation can be strange. my son did it not so long ago and we could not complete it. we did everything it asked, but no (?)

dont try to over achieve. find your learning range and go with that. it will take time for you, but eventually it will come, bit by bit - honestly!!

if my son can begin to learn im sure you can.
ask lots of questions here at Subsim. some one will respond. dont think your question is silly or stupid - there is no such thing.

all the best

poetic hunter · 09-07-10, 05:31 AM

*sigh* Alright then. Guess I'll just ask questions.

First of all. My weapons officer isn't helping me out in the torpedo academy lesson.

He has two options that I can't seem to use.

1.Choosing target. None of them seem to work.

For example, under the target tab, if I click on "Recommended Target" he always says "cannot recommend target." If I click on "Target nearest ship" or "Target nearest merchant" Nothing happens.

2. His "Torpedo attack" tab doesn't seem to work.

If I click on "identify ship" nothing happens. If I click on "Find solution" Nothing happens.

If I click on "Fire torpedo" it shoots out, but it goes waaay off course.

In other words, I'm trying to do assisted torpedo firing, but my weapons officer isn't helping me. Is it because I'm in the academy mode (as opposed to campaign mode)? What's going on?

-------------------

smilinicon · 09-07-10, 05:39 AM

the navigation tutorial is quite easy. all you do is follow the radio messages. I guess manual TDC will be out of the question...

poetic hunter · 09-07-10, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smilinicon

the navigation tutorial is quite easy. all you do is follow the radio messages. I guess manual TDC will be out of the question...

See this is why I was afraid that people would misinterpret the thread. Sure, the navigation tutorial is easy...if you know what to do. From the perspective of someone with experience, it's a piece of cake. But Trust me, for someone who has never played the game before, that navigation tutorial is almost impossible to complete without outside help. No where in game does it explain that you have to listen to the radio messages and follow them. There is also a tricky part when it comes to completing objective 2 and objective 4 in that navigation tutorial. They have to be completed simultaneously if I recall correctly, not consecutively like you would expect.

desirableroasted · 09-07-10, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poetic hunter

No where in game does it explain that you have to listen to the radio messages and follow them.

I agree that SH3 has a steep learning curve at the beginning.

When you start the Navigation tutorial, you do get a message on the right hand side that states "Follow closely the instructions in the radio messages to complete the exercise." It's also in the Captain's briefing (which you can reach at any later point by clicking "Mission Objectives" from the menu on the left).

Quote:

Originally Posted by poetic hunter

There is also a tricky part when it comes to completing objective 2 and objective 4 in that navigation tutorial. They have to be completed simultaneously if I recall correctly, not consecutively like you would expect.

They are sequential. You should take the academy briefings utterly literally. Yes, it makes my eyes roll, too, just as it did back in Navy basic training.

09-07-10, 06:10 AM

@poetic hunter
Forget the academy.
Get yourself set up for a carreer beginning in 1939. This will be your on the job training.
You must Lock your target/contact on one of the periscopes or the UZO (binocular looking thing on the bridge).
Aim it at your target then Left Click on the Lock button.
Next, tell the WE (Weapons Officer) to identify target. (He will).
Tell the WE to give a solution to the target. (He will).
These things will be entered on the notepad, which is on the right of your screen.
(Ship type, range, speed, angle on the bow.)
These are the only two things he will do for you. The other buttons look very impressive, but do nothing. They don't work. There, SH3 is messed up, not you.

OK. Get yourself a carreer, boat, and crew. Take them out on a (training) patrol. Take the boat for a ride some place. Just driving yourself out of the base can be a real learning experience in ship handling!
Let us know how it goes. If your past problems were solved, and any new problems you encounter.

On return, as long as you are within 25 km of your homeport, hit the "escape" key.
LC (Left Click) End Patrol.
LC Dock at XYZ (your port name).

09-06-10, 11:51 PM	#1
poetic hunter Watch Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 24 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Perspective from a complete newbie :( Alright guys, I hope someone out there reads this thread carefully and understands the point I'm trying to make here. ---------------------------------------- I am not attacking the game. In fact, I am absolutely intrigued by this game and want to learn more. -------------------------------------------- However, this game is not very newbie friendly. This is even more of an issue because it's very hard for veterans like you guys to understand what I mean by that. Let me explain: I have already read many previous threads here including the big sticky thread above for new players. But one problem still remains: Even though you guys are very helpful, it seems like the help you give makes more sense to a veteran than to a complete newbie. Do you understand what I'm trying to say here? Thus, it is still difficult for a complete newbie to get into this game. For example, let's start with the academy lesson # 1 Navigation. The video tutorial was practically useless. It took me hours and hours to try to pass that navigation examination (even though it's so simple), and the only way I found a solution was by using information that the in-game help doesn't give you. I had to pay close attention to the radio messages, and do everything just right. I don't know how someone who is a complete newbie could figure out how to finish that navigation tutorial without stumbling across outside help like that. Now, let's move on to firing the torpedo. That is easy enough in automatic mode. Point and shoot. But when it comes to manually firing the torpedo, the video tutorial was completely useless . The video guides I found online move so fast and the way they talk it seems like the information they give would make more sense to someone already familiar. But to a complete newbie it is still very confusing. ------------------ Does anyone else understand the point I was trying to make here? I'm saying that while there is help available, the help seems like it makes more sense to veterans than to complete newbies. That's just not good. --------------- I am willing to do the dirty work here and learn more about this game (particularly intercepting and manual TCD), and then re-translate it back into a language that complete newbies would be able to understand. I know how hard it is for a completely new player to dive into this game. But I would need help to be able to do this translation for newbies. Thus I started this thread.

09-06-10, 11:59 PM	#2
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Welcome Aboard! And of course you will get the help you need,what it is now one may be __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

09-07-10, 01:50 AM	#9
HW3 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gresham Oregon Posts: 6,574 Downloads: 458 Uploads: 0	Welcome poetic hunter! If ever we give an answer that you do not understand, just say so, and we will try again to give an answer that makes sense to you. Remember, we all were newbies once. __________________ "Some ships are designed to sink...others require our assistance." Nathan Zelk

09-07-10, 05:39 AM	#12
smilinicon Bosun Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 66 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	the navigation tutorial is quite easy. all you do is follow the radio messages. I guess manual TDC will be out of the question... __________________ ----------------------

09-07-10, 12:36 AM	#4
U777 Medic Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 159 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	I suggest trying the navel academy. Wilkommen

09-07-10, 01:19 AM	#7
Snestorm Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Welcome aboard! I would suggest that you stop "trying to get your feet wet", and just "dive in". You do, in fact, have a "life preserver", in that you can begin a new carreer following any "fatal" mistakes. Consider it to be your training period, and you have much to learn. Just select the highest "Realism Level" you feel comfortable with, and start a (training) patrol. Whether you go to the assigned patrol grid, or not, is entirely up to you, as your objective is to learn. Learning the basics of safe Navigation and Ship Handling should be your primary goal. I recommend the Weapons Officer as a fine instructor. Ask him to identify the contact, and provide a solution. Use all the information provided in that solution to decide how to avoid a collision with that vessel (if friendly), or how to evade (if hostile). Write down any questions which may arise, and if you haven't stumbled on the answer by the end of the patrol, post the question here. Raise the "Realism Level", and extend the training patrol length as you see fit. You'll know when you're ready for the real Patrol 1. Experiment. Don't be afraid to make mistakes. That's how we all learned. (I recommend that you not mod your game before becoming familiar with the stock version, and being able to logicaly form a judgement on what more you do, and don't want out of your game.)

09-07-10, 01:22 AM	#8
timmy41 Weps Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 367 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	GWX3 comes with a several hundred page manual, all of which is useful! dont worry, half the pages are illustrations or space i read the whole thing before getting in to the game, and i refer back to it very often. read it even if you arent going to use the mod. its very interesting, even if one would not play the game at all as it has a lot of history in it. there are many suggested tactics in it that should be ones rule of thumb in many situations. but most importantly of all, practice! even if you feel like a fool doing it, just get your uboot and navigate the baltic and go in circles and whatnot. get used to the tools. find a neutral ship and learn how to plot it, then find another and submerge and learn how to plot it, then another, and learn how to plot it using the hydrophones! dont be discouraged if its hard, ive been playing for months and im still only mediocre at gathering target information. i learn a new thing every time i come here, and the odd things i learned here have saved my life more than once! also, learn the shortcuts to commands, youll just inherently learn them eventually. it makes the game that much easier when you dont have to click on every little thing. oh and be more aggressive! :P

09-07-10, 05:31 AM	#11
poetic hunter Watch Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 24 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	sigh Alright then. Guess I'll just ask questions. First of all. My weapons officer isn't helping me out in the torpedo academy lesson. He has two options that I can't seem to use. 1.Choosing target. None of them seem to work. For example, under the target tab, if I click on "Recommended Target" he always says "cannot recommend target." If I click on "Target nearest ship" or "Target nearest merchant" Nothing happens. 2. His "Torpedo attack" tab doesn't seem to work. If I click on "identify ship" nothing happens. If I click on "Find solution" Nothing happens. If I click on "Fire torpedo" it shoots out, but it goes waaay off course. In other words, I'm trying to do assisted torpedo firing, but my weapons officer isn't helping me. Is it because I'm in the academy mode (as opposed to campaign mode)? What's going on? -------------------

09-07-10, 06:10 AM	#15
Snestorm Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	@poetic hunter Forget the academy. Get yourself set up for a carreer beginning in 1939. This will be your on the job training. You must Lock your target/contact on one of the periscopes or the UZO (binocular looking thing on the bridge). Aim it at your target then Left Click on the Lock button. Next, tell the WE (Weapons Officer) to identify target. (He will). Tell the WE to give a solution to the target. (He will). These things will be entered on the notepad, which is on the right of your screen. (Ship type, range, speed, angle on the bow.) These are the only two things he will do for you. The other buttons look very impressive, but do nothing. They don't work. There, SH3 is messed up, not you. OK. Get yourself a carreer, boat, and crew. Take them out on a (training) patrol. Take the boat for a ride some place. Just driving yourself out of the base can be a real learning experience in ship handling! Let us know how it goes. If your past problems were solved, and any new problems you encounter. On return, as long as you are within 25 km of your homeport, hit the "escape" key. LC (Left Click) End Patrol. LC Dock at XYZ (your port name).