Torpedo effectiveness

Obersteuermann · 08-13-10, 12:03 PM

Last night I sneaked into a nice large convoy just west of Ireland. I sneaked past all the escorts, got right amongst the columns and started firing my eels.

Out of 7 fired (all bow tubes plus an extra couple, and the stern tube) I scored five hits - but only one ship sunk. Each of my targets were 8k-10k tons and received two torpedoes: one fused for impact and running at about 1.5m - 2m depth and one magnetic eel set to run about a metre under the ship's keel.

I didn't hang around near the surface to see what hit what (learned that lesson the hard way!) but I did immobilise a Liberty ship. When the escorts had safely passed by I surfaced and had a good look - seemed that the surface runner had holed his engine room just below the waterline.

Later on, while running back to Bergen, I came across a lone tramp steamer and put a magnetic torpedo under his keel. It was a perfect shot, straight under his funnel, but it had no effect at all. If anything, it sped him up!

What am I doing wrong with the magnetic torpedoes? They don't seem to be inflicting any real damage...

CherryHarbey · 08-13-10, 01:09 PM

could be a number of things.
1 magnetic pistol were unreliable early in the war, if you have dud torps as possibility in your realism settings it may be that.
2 you could be setting them to run too deep, again early war according the radio messages, the torps had a fault making them run deeper than set, add that to your deliberate clearance of the keel and you may be too deep to trigger.
3 the swell of the sea in high winds could be affecting the depth of your torps causing either them to run too deep (as above) or too shallow and strike the curved bottom of the ship.

for the reasons above I tend to avoid using magnetic pistols unless the ship I'm aiming at is too far off the 90 degree angle on bow to make a impact detonate. hope this helps or at least give you possibilites as to what is causing your problems
cheers,

BulSoldier · 08-13-10, 02:24 PM

The radio massages are just for immersion.Torpedoes run at desired depth.However you said that you havent observed any hits, so there is a chance of premature detonation, it is frequent in torps with magnetic pistols in early war.

Also there is the possibility the torpedoes werent enough.I had cases of 4-5k ships surviving 2 torps in diffrent areas and continue going (slower but still).Unless you aim very precise at weak points there is always the chance the ships wont sink.

K-61 · 08-13-10, 03:10 PM

During a recent early war patrol I fired two torpedoes, under calm conditions at two auxilliary cruisers. Three were steaming in line and thoughts of Otto Weddigen flashed through my head, but they were too far off when I first spotted them to make an attack on all three feasible. I had two electrics and two steamers loaded; the range was too great for the electrics, so I fired one steamer at each of the two trailing cruisers. The first magnetic prematured and the second one passed just aft of the second. In the meantime, I swung my stern and fired another steamer at the last one; it hit but the cruiser kept on sailing. I lost sight of them. The last I saw the trailing cruiser had fallen behind, but she was still too fast for me to catch submerged and there's no way I was going to risk surfacing in daylight for a high speed end-around. She may have sunk beyond my visible range, but I never did get any notification.

C'est le guerre!

Jimbuna · 08-13-10, 03:55 PM

If the torpedoes are detonating whilst under the keel and not prematurely....your doing nothing wrong, simply experiencing a large bout of bad luck.

CherryHarbey · 08-13-10, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BulSoldier

The radio massages are just for immersion.Torpedoes run at desired depth.

Are all of the radio messages eye candy (or ear candy) ?
I realised most (ships in distress etc) were just for show, but as the issues with the torps actually happened I thought that this was also modelled in the game. is this not the case?
maybe the reason I hate magnetic pistols so much is that I'm aiming too shallow and assuming the torp fault is correcting.... and it isn't.......

maillemaker · 08-13-10, 04:45 PM

Unless the radio message corresponds to an actual map contact, it's just for show.

As for the torpedoes, if they are hitting and exploding, then you are just getting back luck, like Jim said.

If they aren't exploding, then they are either duds or you set your depth too low.

Steve

Obersteuermann · 08-13-10, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

If the torpedoes are detonating whilst under the keel and not prematurely....your doing nothing wrong, simply experiencing a large bout of bad luck.

I'm thinking bad luck. Just fired a 3-tube spread at USS Nevada (if I could get close enough I'd have USS Brooklyn and HMS Southampton as well...) but forgot to check the depth before loosing them. That'll be 3 impact torpedoes running at 4m against a battleship with a draft of 6m.

Quote:

for the reasons above I tend to avoid using magnetic pistols unless the ship I'm aiming at is too far off the 90 degree angle on bow to make a impact detonate.

OK, so conventional wisdom is to go for impact whenever possible?

frau kaleun · 08-13-10, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obersteuermann

I'm thinking bad luck. Just fired a 3-tube spread at USS Nevada (if I could get close enough I'd have USS Brooklyn and HMS Southampton as well...) but forgot to check the depth before loosing them. That'll be 3 impact torpedoes running at 4m against a battleship with a draft of 6m.

I don't know anything about the curvature of those hulls but might that have been far enough below the waterline for the eels to slide downward off the keel and not get a "clean" enough impact to detonate? Usually when I set for impact I tend to aim for halfway down from the waterline or higher.

Quote:

OK, so conventional wisdom is to go for impact whenever possible?

Depends. I haven't enabled "dud torpedoes" in the realism options yet (at least I don't remember doing it). So I usually set for magnetic because I figure all I have to do is get it close enough to the hull to set if off, and I'll set it high enough to make impact on the hull rather than pass below it if I have any doubts about how much the sea state is likely to factor into things.

divingbluefrog · 08-14-10, 02:24 AM

Radio messages are eye candy but historically correct, at least the ones I use (RadioLog_Expanded Updated V2 by Danurve) and I've stuck this one on the notepad in the scope view :
Oberkommando der Kriegsmarine|Deutsche Seeverbände||05 June 40||Discontinue all use of magnetic detonation. Impact only setting is to be used for all attacks.||OKM
This order remained active until Dec 42.
At this time, if I've survived the war from 39 (I start all my carriers that year), well, I don't feel the need to test a new and hazardous way of sinking ships...

K-61 · 08-14-10, 08:38 AM

Just before I shut down last night I made one last attack on a lone freighter on a dark and stormy night. Due to the poor visibility I was travelling submerged at 25 metres and using hydrophones. My hydrophone operator picked up a contact which I tracked for several hours game time. She was moving faster than I could submerged, so I made a number of higher speed surface runs and dives for updated sound bearings. Eventually we spotted her, making 10 knots. The high waves kept drowning out my diesels so I had to spend quite some time catching up to her. I also ordered the engineer to stop charging batteries as I needed to squeeze out every possible knot [I'm in a VIIB.] Rather than risk trying to pull alongside her, have her start turning and make my shot even more difficult, or call in help from the numerous patrol craft that sail in the Hebrides area, I decided to risk a magnetic pistol from dead astern from about 500 metres. We crossed our fingers, set the depth for one metre under the keel and hoped she didn't hop up as it sailed under her. We lucked out and were satisfied to see the detonation. She went under in about ten minutes and we hauled it out of there before diving again to resume our patrol.

If I have to risk a magnetic pistol in rough seas, I try to fire it from as close as possible in order to minimize the chances of a premature detonation. Sometimes a "Hail Mary" is your best option.

BulSoldier · 08-14-10, 09:29 AM

Good shot ! I believe magnetic pistol problems tend to be very rare after may '40

Jimbuna · 08-14-10, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obersteuermann

OK, so conventional wisdom is to go for impact whenever possible?

I personally prefer to use magnetic because you can usually cause more terminal damage....machinery/magazine/fuel bunkers, not to mention the lifting of AOB restrictions.

frau kaleun · 08-14-10, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I personally prefer to use magnetic because you can usually cause more terminal damage....machinery/magazine/fuel bunkers, not to mention the lifting of AOB restrictions.

Fader_Berg · 08-15-10, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obersteuermann

OK, so conventional wisdom is to go for impact whenever possible?

No, not according to me. My first choice is magnetic pistols, since they makes more damage and therefore let me consume less torpedos. But since the chance for a mishap increases when using magnetics, I make some exceptions.
At tankers and ships < ~4k tons there are often no reason to go for magnetic since one impact mostly do the trick.
In very high seas I'll also go for impact on larger ships 'cause the bad weather helps to sink the ships anyways. And the chance for a premature detonation is also almost certain when fireing over 500m. In medium and low (not calm), seas I never fire magnetic over 1.5 - 2k meters. At farther distances in those conditions, I'll go for impact.

08-13-10, 12:03 PM	#1
Obersteuermann Shore leave Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 70 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Torpedo effectiveness Last night I sneaked into a nice large convoy just west of Ireland. I sneaked past all the escorts, got right amongst the columns and started firing my eels. Out of 7 fired (all bow tubes plus an extra couple, and the stern tube) I scored five hits - but only one ship sunk. Each of my targets were 8k-10k tons and received two torpedoes: one fused for impact and running at about 1.5m - 2m depth and one magnetic eel set to run about a metre under the ship's keel. I didn't hang around near the surface to see what hit what (learned that lesson the hard way!) but I did immobilise a Liberty ship. When the escorts had safely passed by I surfaced and had a good look - seemed that the surface runner had holed his engine room just below the waterline. Later on, while running back to Bergen, I came across a lone tramp steamer and put a magnetic torpedo under his keel. It was a perfect shot, straight under his funnel, but it had no effect at all. If anything, it sped him up! What am I doing wrong with the magnetic torpedoes? They don't seem to be inflicting any real damage...

08-13-10, 02:24 PM	#3
BulSoldier Samurai Navy Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Burgas/Bulgaria Posts: 550 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	The radio massages are just for immersion.Torpedoes run at desired depth.However you said that you havent observed any hits, so there is a chance of premature detonation, it is frequent in torps with magnetic pistols in early war. Also there is the possibility the torpedoes werent enough.I had cases of 4-5k ships surviving 2 torps in diffrent areas and continue going (slower but still).Unless you aim very precise at weak points there is always the chance the ships wont sink. __________________ By the hour !

08-13-10, 03:10 PM	#4
K-61 Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 795 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	During a recent early war patrol I fired two torpedoes, under calm conditions at two auxilliary cruisers. Three were steaming in line and thoughts of Otto Weddigen flashed through my head, but they were too far off when I first spotted them to make an attack on all three feasible. I had two electrics and two steamers loaded; the range was too great for the electrics, so I fired one steamer at each of the two trailing cruisers. The first magnetic prematured and the second one passed just aft of the second. In the meantime, I swung my stern and fired another steamer at the last one; it hit but the cruiser kept on sailing. I lost sight of them. The last I saw the trailing cruiser had fallen behind, but she was still too fast for me to catch submerged and there's no way I was going to risk surfacing in daylight for a high speed end-around. She may have sunk beyond my visible range, but I never did get any notification. C'est le guerre! __________________

08-13-10, 03:55 PM	#5
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,473 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	If the torpedoes are detonating whilst under the keel and not prematurely....your doing nothing wrong, simply experiencing a large bout of bad luck. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

08-14-10, 08:38 AM	#11
K-61 Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 795 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 0	Just before I shut down last night I made one last attack on a lone freighter on a dark and stormy night. Due to the poor visibility I was travelling submerged at 25 metres and using hydrophones. My hydrophone operator picked up a contact which I tracked for several hours game time. She was moving faster than I could submerged, so I made a number of higher speed surface runs and dives for updated sound bearings. Eventually we spotted her, making 10 knots. The high waves kept drowning out my diesels so I had to spend quite some time catching up to her. I also ordered the engineer to stop charging batteries as I needed to squeeze out every possible knot [I'm in a VIIB.] Rather than risk trying to pull alongside her, have her start turning and make my shot even more difficult, or call in help from the numerous patrol craft that sail in the Hebrides area, I decided to risk a magnetic pistol from dead astern from about 500 metres. We crossed our fingers, set the depth for one metre under the keel and hoped she didn't hop up as it sailed under her. We lucked out and were satisfied to see the detonation. She went under in about ten minutes and we hauled it out of there before diving again to resume our patrol. If I have to risk a magnetic pistol in rough seas, I try to fire it from as close as possible in order to minimize the chances of a premature detonation. Sometimes a "Hail Mary" is your best option. __________________

08-13-10, 01:09 PM	#2
CherryHarbey Engineer Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Derby, UK Posts: 200 Downloads: 86 Uploads: 0	could be a number of things. 1 magnetic pistol were unreliable early in the war, if you have dud torps as possibility in your realism settings it may be that. 2 you could be setting them to run too deep, again early war according the radio messages, the torps had a fault making them run deeper than set, add that to your deliberate clearance of the keel and you may be too deep to trigger. 3 the swell of the sea in high winds could be affecting the depth of your torps causing either them to run too deep (as above) or too shallow and strike the curved bottom of the ship. for the reasons above I tend to avoid using magnetic pistols unless the ship I'm aiming at is too far off the 90 degree angle on bow to make a impact detonate. hope this helps or at least give you possibilites as to what is causing your problems cheers,

08-13-10, 04:45 PM	#7
maillemaker Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,639 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	Unless the radio message corresponds to an actual map contact, it's just for show. As for the torpedoes, if they are hitting and exploding, then you are just getting back luck, like Jim said. If they aren't exploding, then they are either duds or you set your depth too low. Steve

08-14-10, 02:24 AM	#10
divingbluefrog Medic Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 164 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 1	Radio messages are eye candy but historically correct, at least the ones I use (RadioLog_Expanded Updated V2 by Danurve) and I've stuck this one on the notepad in the scope view : Oberkommando der Kriegsmarine\|Deutsche Seeverbände\|\|05 June 40\|\|Discontinue all use of magnetic detonation. Impact only setting is to be used for all attacks.\|\|OKM This order remained active until Dec 42. At this time, if I've survived the war from 39 (I start all my carriers that year), well, I don't feel the need to test a new and hazardous way of sinking ships...

08-14-10, 09:29 AM	#12
BulSoldier Samurai Navy Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Burgas/Bulgaria Posts: 550 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	Good shot ! I believe magnetic pistol problems tend to be very rare after may '40 __________________ By the hour !