Your tax dollars at play !!!

SteamWake · 07-01-10, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Reporting from Sacramento —
California welfare recipients have been able to get taxpayer cash — meant to feed and clothe their children — from ATMs at strip clubs across the state, including some well-known gentlemen's cabarets in Los Angeles.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,6705176.story

07-01-10, 11:44 AM

So nearly all of the money is from cash machines on tribal land.
What is the general availability of ATMs outside of the big business establishments on tribal land?

tater · 07-01-10, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

So nearly all of the money is from cash machines on tribal land.
What is the general availability of ATMs outside of the big business establishments on tribal land?

How much time have you spent on the res, tribesman?

My house is actually within a reservation, so I spend a lot of time on A res (though the property is private, the access and public space is tribal).

Do tell, you sound quite expert.

krashkart · 07-01-10, 12:23 PM

There's a loophole that was overlooked.

nikimcbee · 07-01-10, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

How much time have you spent on the res, tribesman?

My house is actually within a reservation, so I spend a lot of time on A res (though the property is private, the access and public space is tribal).

Do tell, you sound quite expert.

@tater, just curious, are you navajo?

UnderseaLcpl · 07-01-10, 12:37 PM

Okay, two questions:

1) What stops people from simply going to an approved ATM and then visiting such a venue?

2) How much do you think it will cost to implement this policy, including all the paperwork and other wasted productivity?

It wouldn't surprise me one bit (assuming the money is being miused, and some of it undoubtedly is) if this ended up costing California even more than TANF fraud, since it will now be TANF fraud plus ineffective fraud countermeaures.

tater · 07-01-10, 12:38 PM

No, I'm not native-american. I live in the foothills here in ABQ—and the north part is actually tribal land (Sandia Pueblo). So my german-swedish-french-irish background american ass is on tribal land the second I hit the street, or take a walk off my property in the foothills. If I look out my window to the NW, most all the land I see is tribal, all the way to the river (7-8 miles as the crow flies).

Like more remote reservations (this is virtually within Albuquerque), every store takes ATM cards. Every eatery. All gas stations and convenience stores have ATMs. Most (all that I can think of off hand, actually, but I might be missing a few) reservations keep the casinos away from the pueblo itself, so for normal activity, the casino would be far out of the way to use an ATM machine, particularly since they place them inside to encourage spending the money there. Since anyone wanting to spend money on the res would be doing so at a store (which would virtually always take an ATM card), I don't see any reason for welfare recipients to be hitting up an ATM at a casino for convenience.

Maybe in Ireland where tribesman hails from ATM cards are only used for getting cash. Here in the US, you have to work hard to find any business that does not take ATM cards. Even my yard work guy has cell-phone unit that takes CC and ATM cards, lol. I never have cash any more.

tater · 07-01-10, 12:44 PM

BTW, getting into a strip club requires a cover charge usually, right? (never been to one, actually)

If so, using a welfare ATM card there should result in you being disqualified from welfare, IMHO.

Don't ban their use in such places, use use to stop welfare for people. Scumbags get their free (for them) porno, and taxpayers get to give them the heave-ho. Win-win.

07-01-10, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Maybe in Ireland where tribesman hails from ATM cards are only used for getting cash. Here in the US, you have to work hard to find any business that does not take ATM cards.

But they ain't normal ATM cards are they which is why the State supplies a list of companies that do accept them.

SteamWake · 07-01-10, 06:06 PM

Whats sad is that this is probably the final fate of the cards. Before this it is highly likely that they were pawned on the street for cashola or drugs.

tater · 07-01-10, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

But they ain't normal ATM cards are they which is why the State supplies a list of companies that do accept them.

That's the point.

They function 100% as normal ATM cards unless the State deletes a specific set of ATM machines. The whole EBT card thing is PC bullsh*t combined with some useful anti-fraud features (a college friend of mine was at Treasury and worked on this for Federal programs when they first switched over).

EBT cards replaced "food stamps" and other programs partially because it "hurt the self-esteem" of scumbags to have to buy food with foodstamps. It SHOULD hurt their self-esteem so they get the **** off welfare ASAP. Making it easier (psychologically) to stay on is insane.

The fraud part was real, but the EBT cards have not really helped as executed. What happens is that a crooked business takes the cards that are supposed to be used only for food, and gives cash in return for a %.

Welfare cards work similarly, but apparently just dole out cash.

Regardless, casinos are NOT the only ATM machines on the res. The idea that they just happened to use them out of convenience is absurd.

07-01-10, 12:23 PM	#4
krashkart Navy Seal Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 5,292 Downloads: 100 Uploads: 0	There's a loophole that was overlooked. __________________ sent from my fingertips using a cheap keyboard

07-01-10, 12:37 PM	#6
UnderseaLcpl Silent Hunter Join Date: May 2008 Location: Storming the beaches! Posts: 4,254 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Okay, two questions: 1) What stops people from simply going to an approved ATM and then visiting such a venue? 2) How much do you think it will cost to implement this policy, including all the paperwork and other wasted productivity? It wouldn't surprise me one bit (assuming the money is being miused, and some of it undoubtedly is) if this ended up costing California even more than TANF fraud, since it will now be TANF fraud plus ineffective fraud countermeaures. __________________ I stole this sig from Task Force

07-01-10, 06:06 PM	#10
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Whats sad is that this is probably the final fate of the cards. Before this it is highly likely that they were pawned on the street for cashola or drugs. __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

07-01-10, 11:44 AM	#2
Tribesman Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	So nearly all of the money is from cash machines on tribal land. What is the general availability of ATMs outside of the big business establishments on tribal land?

07-01-10, 12:38 PM	#7
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	No, I'm not native-american. I live in the foothills here in ABQ—and the north part is actually tribal land (Sandia Pueblo). So my german-swedish-french-irish background american ass is on tribal land the second I hit the street, or take a walk off my property in the foothills. If I look out my window to the NW, most all the land I see is tribal, all the way to the river (7-8 miles as the crow flies). Like more remote reservations (this is virtually within Albuquerque), every store takes ATM cards. Every eatery. All gas stations and convenience stores have ATMs. Most (all that I can think of off hand, actually, but I might be missing a few) reservations keep the casinos away from the pueblo itself, so for normal activity, the casino would be far out of the way to use an ATM machine, particularly since they place them inside to encourage spending the money there. Since anyone wanting to spend money on the res would be doing so at a store (which would virtually always take an ATM card), I don't see any reason for welfare recipients to be hitting up an ATM at a casino for convenience. Maybe in Ireland where tribesman hails from ATM cards are only used for getting cash. Here in the US, you have to work hard to find any business that does not take ATM cards. Even my yard work guy has cell-phone unit that takes CC and ATM cards, lol. I never have cash any more.

07-01-10, 12:44 PM	#8
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	BTW, getting into a strip club requires a cover charge usually, right? (never been to one, actually) If so, using a welfare ATM card there should result in you being disqualified from welfare, IMHO. Don't ban their use in such places, use use to stop welfare for people. Scumbags get their free (for them) porno, and taxpayers get to give them the heave-ho. Win-win.