Possible national hostilities

[NFunky]

I've kinda been getting bored with the US vs someone-else scenarios since the US ships almost exclusively have the advantage. So I've been looking for possible conflicts involving other nations that have playable platforms in DW/RA.

Right now I'm trying to design an Iranian Kilo (RA) vs Israel scenario and its proving quite interesting. Israel has a far superior navy, but their surface ships don't have very good ASW defenses. Only their Sa'ar 5 class corvettes carry sonar, and these ships carry one somewhat limited helo each. This totals 3 sonar capable ships and 3 ASW choppers (realistically it would probably be more like 2 and 2). I really don't believe Iran has any credible ASW capability, but one of their Kilos could put a serious hurt on an Israeli SAG, with mines, torpedoes or even missiles these days.

But I'm looking for other scenarios to play with and my imagination seems to be on hold at the moment. India could be a possibility against Pakistan or even China. China itself is another possibility, but other than Taiwan or minor territorial disputes, I can't come up with credible military engagements. I'm at a complete loss as to any scenarios involving and European powers that wouldn't involve the US too.

I really wish RA had made more non NATO/Russian platforms playable since I see these 3rd party conflicts as being far more dynamic and unpredictable. But considering the platforms we have available, do any of you have any ideas? I'd like them to be at least vaguely credible, but I'm all for unlikely situations.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by NFunky

Only their Sa'ar 5 class corvettes carry sonar, and these ships carry one somewhat limited helo each. This totals 3 sonar capable ships and 3 ASW choppers (realistically it would probably be more like 2 and 2). I really don't believe Iran has any credible ASW capability, but one of their Kilos could put a serious hurt on an Israeli SAG, with mines, torpedoes or even missiles these days.

Israel's Saar 4s (or was it 4.5?) have the capability of having their stern equpiment removed and replaced with a helicopter-style dipping sonar and some LWTs. Iran has P-3s.

But considering the platforms we have available, do any of you have any ideas? I'd like them to be at least vaguely credible, but I'm all for unlikely situations.

I would take a good hard look at India-China. India wants to be the blue-water power of the Indian Ocean, while China wants a "string of pearls" of naval bases to secure sea lanes to the Persian Gulf and Africa. They may end up competing for resources. (Playables: Kilo, Akula)

On the European side, I'd try to wargame out the Turkish situation with Isreal. If the Islamists get their way, Turkey may very well go too far and burn its bridges with NATO. And with that out of the way, there isn't much to keep them and Greece from playing rough, and IIRC the Turks have part of Cyprus occupied. (Playables: FFG, P-3)

[Dr.Sid]

I'd like to see something with Somalian pirates. It's more for the frigate, sure.

[NFunky]

Good ideas and I totally forgot about the Iranian P-3s. Please keep 'em coming.

Oh and I could have sworn I've played someone else's Somali pirate mission, but I could just be imagining things.

[NFunky]

I only just realised that the Israeli ships I've been using are Sa'ar 4 (Reshef) class. So I went into the mission editor (RA version) to remedy this situation and low-and-behold, there are only Sa'ar 4 class corvettes available. So then I looked using the mission editor in the LWAMI version and saw only Sa'ar 4 and Sa'ar 4.5 classes. Neither Sa'ar 4 or 4.5 carry sonar, torpedoes or helicopters and are thus no challenge for a submarine to kill. Also, all news reports indicate the Israeli corvette currently in the gulf is a Sa'ar 5 and likely any other ships sent will be as well. The Sa'ar 5 is much more sophisticated that its predecessors and the three ships of the class are Israel's front-like warships. I would have assumed if any Israeli ships were included in RA/LWAMI it would be these, but it seems for some reason they are the only ones left out. Damn shame...

[TLAM Strike]

I'll get around to modeling the Saar V for LWAMI 3.11 some day soon.

I've been meaning to update the inventories of countries in that region, especially Syria (I'll finish that Petya one day...). Israel would be a logical choice too.

EDIT: In LWAMI Israel's ASW punch is supplied by its German built Dolphin class submarines.

[NFunky]

Nice, thanks man. I really appreciate all the work you've done already and some updated middle-east navies would be a great help in designing modern scenarios.

[Molon Labe]

..and (sorry to mention it twice) we do have a version of the saar 4.5 that has an ASW module installed. See Naval Institute Guide, page 334. It's not a lot of capability, but it's not nothing.

[NFunky]

Gotcha. Where is it listed in the mission editor though?

[Molon Labe]

Sorry, I was mistaken, it's the Saar IV and if you open the ship list you'll see ship names with (ASUW) and (ASW) to identify their configuration.

[NFunky]

Thanks ML, I now think I can make my scenario challenging enough using the ASW Sa'ar 4 variant and having some random Israeli sub placement. The real trick with this scenario is finding the Israeli ships amongst the multitude of neutral traffic in the area. I'm using dynamic groups and some random start boxes to make this more difficult, but once you detect a hostile ship it's been way to easy to attack and get away with it.

On another note, does anyone have any ideas for a modern Korean scenario? A North Korean submarine seems to have been able to sink a South Korean warship, which would be an interesting scenario to design, but there are no North or South Korean platforms drivable in any mod. The only scenarios I can come up with are the same old US vs. North Korea thing that has not only been done before, but looks increasingly less likely in the real world.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by NFunky

On another note, does anyone have any ideas for a modern Korean scenario? A North Korean submarine seems to have been able to sink a South Korean warship, which would be an interesting scenario to design, but there are no North or South Korean platforms drivable in any mod. The only scenarios I can come up with are the same old US vs. North Korea thing that has not only been done before, but looks increasingly less likely in the real world.

Well I'm currently working on (actually I'm almost done, just need a few more tweaks) a mission with the LWAMI's North Korean midget subs transporting a nuke to a target in South Korea. Its a very open ended mission as far as tactics go, you could lie in wait for the nuke carrying sub, or you can try and hunt him down both present problems since you don't know what his exact course is- only his starting point and destination. The waters are also very shallow so you start to be limited in where you can go, and the detection ranges become short. The mission took me about 7 hours game time to complete, there has been a call for longer missions so here is one.

I'll prob upload it this week end.