SubSim Engine DevTeam (open for joining)

aergistal · 05-14-10, 03:17 AM

This is a thread dedicated to the creation of an independent sub simulator from scratch with the help of subsim users.

All it takes is good men, right?

I think it can be done. First step is to write the software requirements, we can start with what we want out of it then laying out features and selecting the best of them. We'll have issues of complexity and since not all of us own mainframes at home we have to select the level of simulation we want out of it.

Don't think of the team as only programmers and 3d artists. We also need coordinators, researchers, you name it or just people with good ideas.

It's also a good idea to see what everyone can do, you know like a short cv.

To start with me: I can do C#, Java, C/C++ if I must though I don't particularily enjoy it. I'm a Cisco CCNA 1-4 and have knowledge of networking. I studied AI for fun, like neural networks in computer vision.
I'm also an architecture student so I can use pretty much every 3d modelling platform (currently playing with Blender since it's free).

I also have knowledge of different open-source tools that can help create an assembly pipeline.

gutted · 05-14-10, 03:45 AM

I feel your pain about C++. Since using C# i dont particularily enjoy it anymore either.

Takao · 05-14-10, 06:22 AM

I guess you have not heard of "Danger from the Deep" then.
http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/

aergistal · 05-14-10, 06:32 AM

Ocean Simulation

Real-time ocean rendering and lighting (OpenGL)

Whitepaper
Source Code

NVIDIA Ocean Simulation using DX Compute

Whitepaper

Hydrax-SkyX tech demo (for Ogre3D)

http://www.ogre3d.org/wiki/index.php/Hydrax

osgOcean (for OpenSceneGraph)

Source Code

XNA Ocean (for Microsoft XNA)
not so impressive right now but it can be tweaked

05-14-10, 06:36 AM

Well, I can say that this is a very good and honorable idea, but it will probably won't materialize into something real, since the majority of the community members here (or at least the ones that are the most vocal about how "great" SH5 it is) acts like zombies most of the times, like they were "injected" by UBI, they seem to be very happy and satisfied with what UBI are giving them, like you are throwing some rotten food into an overpopulated hog pen. Of course, they are hungry and they will devour everything you will give them, even if you will throw your wastes from your kitchen, for them everything tastes like kaviar. I wish you luck anyway, but my advice is to be prepared for a big disillusion regarding your potential real feedback that you probably hope to receive in this matter from the members. I really don't want to insult anyone, but this is what I think.

About Danger From The Deep, don't count on that game, it's in development state since a few years ago, and it will probably be in the same state in the following years from now on. It's made by a few enthusiasts, but they are not supported (official or for real) by anyone here, on subsim.

And last, but not least, I am not sure if this community truly DESERVES something different or better than SH5. Just a theme that you find might worthy to think about. ...

IanC · 05-14-10, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aergistal

This is a thread dedicated to the creation of an independent sub simulator from scratch with the help of subsim users.

All it takes is good men, right?

I think it can be done.

I admire your initiative aergistal, if I knew anything about programing I'd be on board for sure.

aergistal · 05-14-10, 06:56 AM

Danger From The Deep looks nice and if we can help them it's better than starting from scratch. I'll have to look into it a bit and see some documentation.

The idea is not to make another SH5 at once. I was thinking of separating the work into independent modules that would be used by any number of other projects.

The least we could do is to make Software Requirements Specification paper and put it on the site. That won't require actual programming and any company interested in developing a sub sim would have part of the work done.

subdragoon · 05-14-10, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aergistal

Danger From The Deep looks nice and if we can help them it's better than starting from scratch. I'll have to look into it a bit and see some documentation.

The idea is not to make another SH5 at once. I was thinking of separating the work into independent modules that would be used by any number of other projects.

The least we could do is to make Software Requirements Specification paper and put it on the site. That won't require actual programming and any company interested in developing a sub sim would have part of the work done.

i agree 100%. great ideas. DFtD looks very promising, especially if more people from this community join in on it. better than scratch.

Kpt. Lehmann · 05-14-10, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aergistal

All it takes is good men, right?

Yes.

Sonarman · 05-14-10, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aergistal

The least we could do is to make Software Requirements Specification paper and put it on the site. That won't require actual programming and any company interested in developing a sub sim would have part of the work done.

Here's a somewhat crazy idea...I wonder what would happen if we did the above and offered a prize of say $5000 (from community donations) and posted on every indie game forum out there on the understanding that the winning project whilst credited to it creators would be copyright free open source at the end of the competition that could be used as a springboard for anyone who wished to take it further.

edu · 05-14-10, 02:39 PM

Do you know Flightgear? Open source, GNU, multi-platform flight simulator. It´s a very interesting project and it´s free.

http://www.flightgear.org/

Hartmann · 05-14-10, 03:57 PM

The future of simulators in a console world is this, create a open source engine wich can render a planet with some detail and that can be used for flight, sea, and ground. with a sdk able to create all kind of vehicles, spacecrafts ,submarines and warships and use it in the engine.

A linux equivalent but for games.

Fish40 · 05-14-10, 04:47 PM

I've actually D/L Danger Deep, and it's not bad if you like SH2. I give those guys alot of credit for producing it, and to be honest IMO it's going to take something along these lines to get the subsim we're all longing for. I feel we have a very talented bunch here who are capable of pulling it off. I remember a while ago, there was an independent group of programmers, ect. who set about to produce a very comprehensive bomber sim. IIR it was called "Target For Tonight". It dealt with the British night bomber offensive. They made some progress too, posting AC in production, ground vehicles, and a short video clip of water animation. It looked pretty damned good too! Unfortunatly, it was never realised.

What we need is a skilled group (which I believe we have) to work on this. It will not be done overnight, that's for sure. But without the pressures of deadlines and corporate crap, it could be perfected. Am I being delusional here?

Spartan · 05-14-10, 06:52 PM

Excellent initiative! I would support such an effort as much as possible. Sadly I'm not a programmer. I'm a PM & PR type.

Anyway, I suggest going open source as much as possible for everything and even trying to piggyback on another project if possible as has already been suggested.

For what it is worth, I think the most efficient thing to do at the point would be to talk to the existing SH developers and see if they would be willing to "contract out" - so to speak, to this community.

Safe-Keeper · 05-15-10, 10:56 AM

I fully, 100% agree. Let's split the community in two -- the trolls who do nothing but rant and rave about how much they hate the developers, and those of us who have a bit more of a realistic view on things. The former group gets to make a whole game from scratch with amateur abilities and without a budget (good ******* luck), while the rest of us sit around and gripe and whine at the smallest mistake they make, and even the smallest delay.

We just need some equivalent of the DRM that we can derail every single thread with

.

More seriously, it's a far more realistic prospect to latch onto an existing game, and frankly, I don't really see the need when we have GWX.

05-14-10, 03:17 AM	#1
aergistal Chief Join Date: May 2010 Location: France Posts: 326 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 1	SubSim Engine DevTeam (open for joining) This is a thread dedicated to the creation of an independent sub simulator from scratch with the help of subsim users. All it takes is good men, right? I think it can be done. First step is to write the software requirements, we can start with what we want out of it then laying out features and selecting the best of them. We'll have issues of complexity and since not all of us own mainframes at home we have to select the level of simulation we want out of it. Don't think of the team as only programmers and 3d artists. We also need coordinators, researchers, you name it or just people with good ideas. It's also a good idea to see what everyone can do, you know like a short cv. To start with me: I can do C#, Java, C/C++ if I must though I don't particularily enjoy it. I'm a Cisco CCNA 1-4 and have knowledge of networking. I studied AI for fun, like neural networks in computer vision. I'm also an architecture student so I can use pretty much every 3d modelling platform (currently playing with Blender since it's free). I also have knowledge of different open-source tools that can help create an assembly pipeline.

05-14-10, 03:45 AM	#2
gutted The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Orleans, LA. Posts: 1,379 Downloads: 487 Uploads: 11	I feel your pain about C++. Since using C# i dont particularily enjoy it anymore either. __________________ Solution Solver 2.3.2 - Visual Targeting Tools & Aids

05-14-10, 06:36 AM	#5
MataDirtyHarry Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Well, I can say that this is a very good and honorable idea, but it will probably won't materialize into something real, since the majority of the community members here (or at least the ones that are the most vocal about how "great" SH5 it is) acts like zombies most of the times, like they were "injected" by UBI, they seem to be very happy and satisfied with what UBI are giving them, like you are throwing some rotten food into an overpopulated hog pen. Of course, they are hungry and they will devour everything you will give them, even if you will throw your wastes from your kitchen, for them everything tastes like kaviar. I wish you luck anyway, but my advice is to be prepared for a big disillusion regarding your potential real feedback that you probably hope to receive in this matter from the members. I really don't want to insult anyone, but this is what I think. About Danger From The Deep, don't count on that game, it's in development state since a few years ago, and it will probably be in the same state in the following years from now on. It's made by a few enthusiasts, but they are not supported (official or for real) by anyone here, on subsim. And last, but not least, I am not sure if this community truly DESERVES something different or better than SH5. Just a theme that you find might worthy to think about. ... Last edited by MataDirtyHarry; 05-14-10 at 07:16 AM.

05-14-10, 03:57 PM	#12
Hartmann Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Grid CH 26, Spain ,Barcelona Posts: 1,857 Downloads: 204 Uploads: 0	The future of simulators in a console world is this, create a open source engine wich can render a planet with some detail and that can be used for flight, sea, and ground. with a sdk able to create all kind of vehicles, spacecrafts ,submarines and warships and use it in the engine. A linux equivalent but for games. __________________ But this ship can't sink!... She is made of iron, sir. I assure you, she can. and she will. It is a mathematical certainty. Strength and honor

05-15-10, 10:56 AM	#15
Safe-Keeper Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 3,234 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	I fully, 100% agree. Let's split the community in two -- the trolls who do nothing but rant and rave about how much they hate the developers, and those of us who have a bit more of a realistic view on things. The former group gets to make a whole game from scratch with amateur abilities and without a budget (good ***** luck), while the rest of us sit around and gripe and whine at the smallest mistake they make, and even the smallest delay. We just need some equivalent of the DRM that we can derail every single thread with. More seriously, it's a far** more realistic prospect to latch onto an existing game, and frankly, I don't really see the need when we have GWX. __________________ First Strike Mod tester. Hardcore sub skipper.

05-14-10, 06:22 AM	#3
Takao Officer Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Reading, PA Posts: 244 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I guess you have not heard of "Danger from the Deep" then. http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/

05-14-10, 06:32 AM	#4
aergistal Chief Join Date: May 2010 Location: France Posts: 326 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 1	Ocean Simulation Real-time ocean rendering and lighting (OpenGL) Whitepaper Source Code NVIDIA Ocean Simulation using DX Compute Whitepaper Hydrax-SkyX tech demo (for Ogre3D) http://www.ogre3d.org/wiki/index.php/Hydrax osgOcean (for OpenSceneGraph) Source Code XNA Ocean (for Microsoft XNA) not so impressive right now but it can be tweaked

05-14-10, 06:56 AM	#7
aergistal Chief Join Date: May 2010 Location: France Posts: 326 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 1	Danger From The Deep looks nice and if we can help them it's better than starting from scratch. I'll have to look into it a bit and see some documentation. The idea is not to make another SH5 at once. I was thinking of separating the work into independent modules that would be used by any number of other projects. The least we could do is to make Software Requirements Specification paper and put it on the site. That won't require actual programming and any company interested in developing a sub sim would have part of the work done.

05-14-10, 02:39 PM	#11
edu Watch Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: lurking, deep down... Posts: 19 Downloads: 96 Uploads: 0	Do you know Flightgear? Open source, GNU, multi-platform flight simulator. It´s a very interesting project and it´s free. http://www.flightgear.org/

05-14-10, 04:47 PM	#13
Fish40 The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yonkers, NY U.S.A. Posts: 1,507 Downloads: 154 Uploads: 0	I've actually D/L Danger Deep, and it's not bad if you like SH2. I give those guys alot of credit for producing it, and to be honest IMO it's going to take something along these lines to get the subsim we're all longing for. I feel we have a very talented bunch here who are capable of pulling it off. I remember a while ago, there was an independent group of programmers, ect. who set about to produce a very comprehensive bomber sim. IIR it was called "Target For Tonight". It dealt with the British night bomber offensive. They made some progress too, posting AC in production, ground vehicles, and a short video clip of water animation. It looked pretty damned good too! Unfortunatly, it was never realised. What we need is a skilled group (which I believe we have) to work on this. It will not be done overnight, that's for sure. But without the pressures of deadlines and corporate crap, it could be perfected. Am I being delusional here?

05-14-10, 06:52 PM	#14
Spartan Sailor man Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 50 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Excellent initiative! I would support such an effort as much as possible. Sadly I'm not a programmer. I'm a PM & PR type. Anyway, I suggest going open source as much as possible for everything and even trying to piggyback on another project if possible as has already been suggested. For what it is worth, I think the most efficient thing to do at the point would be to talk to the existing SH developers and see if they would be willing to "contract out" - so to speak, to this community.