[REQ] info on periscope graticule

[Arclight]

Currently the graticule is only visible in the low power magnification, and disappears when going to high power magnification. My question is: is this correct?

As far as I can tell, it should in fact be visible under any magnification, though I can't seem to confirm it definitively.

[karamazovnew]

In SH3 and SH4 the "reticule" was hardcoded to always show the degrees of FOV. It dynamically changed at game start based on your camera settings: Angular Distance and the first zoom level in the list.

Hitman found out that the best way to remove it was to put the 6X zoom first in the list followed by the 1.5X zoom. All custom made reticles had to be hand drawn and depended on the modder's camera settings.
One other funny thing was that any item that you placed inside the Periscope Marks group would light up at night (change color) based on the alpha channel.

For some reason SH5 has 2 bugs:
1. usually when you enter a "periscope" station, the zoom is set initially to something like 0.5X, making the reticule very small.
2. as you've noted, lines now change every time you change the zoom level. One could mistake this for a "feature" if the lines wouldn't just disappear because of the very small periscope field.

[Bilge_Rat]

I have no hard info, but presume it would have been available on both magnifications, since that is the only way the commander could determine the range.




US fleet boat.

are there any photos around? all the ones I have seen are from the US side. US periscopes had an attachment to take photos. I presume U-boats did not have that?

[Arclight]

So it is safe to conclude that the marks should be there on high power magnification?

I'm thinking about drawing the marks by hand on the 'mask' file, and combine it with the changes I made to the zoom and elevation levels, and my colour filter. Aim is to provide a scope with realistic characteristics and that looks authentic.

Big problem is that I have no way to determine where to place the marks, apart from a direct copy of what we currently see in 1x zoom.

Second problem is determining the correct angular FOV and tweaking the view to correspond.

Don't have the math skills to solve either problem, but let's leave it for later. First gonna try and create something that looks the part.



Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

Any more info would still be appreciated of course, still a few problems to solve.

[Hitman]

There is a dossier about german optics and periscopes including pictures as documentation in my SH3 optics mod, you can find all info you need there.

So far I must say that the periscope view in german propaganda films and in Das Boot seems to be non-historical, and probably just a fake for filming purposes. Pictures of true periscope manuals show a very different reticle, though of course the one shown in Das Boot could have been used in true life. But so far any and all pictures I have seen did NOT have that one.

The reticle has a vertical scale in milliradians (10 milliradians = 5.71 degrees) on the left side, and a horizontal one in degrees in the lower part. And yes, you should be able to add it into the Alpha channel and superimpose it to the existing (incorrect) one.

[Arclight]

Yes, that's what this one seems to indicate as well: http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570BritishReport.htm


But without any images, I'm afraid my imagination falls painfully short.

Gonna have a look at the documentation you mentioned, thanks.

[Bilge_Rat]

Hitman, do you have a link for your sh3 optics mod? I can't seem to find it.

[emtguf]

Ive actually been working on this, and have a thread here about it somewhere.

I have the graticule scaled correctly for low power setting 1.5x but not so much at 6x.
I am assuming something in the cameras.cam file is wrong so Ive just been playing with it trying to get it right.

If you use the one included with SH5 to establish range you will however find it is incorrect.

[Arclight]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Hitman, do you have a link for your sh3 optics mod? I can't seem to find it.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1519

Originally Posted by emtguf

Ive actually been working on this, and have a thread here about it somewhere.

I have the graticule scaled correctly for low power setting 1.5x but not so much at 6x.
I am assuming something in the cameras.cam file is wrong so Ive just been playing with it trying to get it right.

If you use the one included with SH5 to establish range you will however find it is incorrect.

Think it's a problem with then angular FOV, and maybe you'll need to tweak the viewport settings as well.

God I wish I'd payed more attention during math.

[Hitman]

I have the graticule scaled correctly for low power setting 1.5x but not so much at 6x.

The graticule was fixed for 1.5x zoom, it didn't change at all when switching to 6x.

1.5x was used in german (And US, and British) periscopes because that magnification gave the better feeling of the natural size of objects when looking with naked eye. That helped considerably estimating distance to them and keeping a good picture of the tactical situation. High power zoom in turn was used just for identifying details and gathering info about the target, never for estimating distance.

From the UBoat Commander's Handbook:

130.) For computing the range, the 1 magnification should be used in the periscope. With the 6-fold magnification, no estimation of distance is possible, on account of the monocular optical system of the periscope.
As a matter of principles the 6-fold magnification of the periscope should always only be used temporarily, in order the better to observe details of the enemy ship, as, for example, in computing its course and speed, but never for the actual attack at close range.

Interestingly, the US periscopes were actually set for using at 6x

The reason is that prewar doctrine considered it too difficult to approach an escroted target because of ASDIC, and submarines were thus expected to shoot from extreme ranges (In itself the reason why the fantastic american TDC was developed). In the US periscopes, like the picture shown above by Bilge_Rat, the big mark corresponds to 1 degree, the small ones to 1/4th of a degree at 6x magnification (Thus the divisions seen)

Arclight and Emtguf (or Hitman as I know you already made this for SH-III). I think we all three are looking for the same thing. A historically correct periscope mod for SH-5. Graticules, zoom, field of view etc.


ps. Hitman check PM please


I have a camera.dat file where i have the correct view in x1.5 and x6, but its based on the stock periscope image view-port. It took very little time to make that and you guys can have it if you want to have a look on it (or use it).

If you guys can provide me with a new view-port (bigger hole perhaps, and definitely historically correct graticule's like Hitman's SH-3 mod) then i can adjust the camera.dat file to suit that in a day or two. I guess what that takes is a modified "Page attack periscope.ini" and "Page obs periscope.ini" and a couple of DDS or tga files.

My dream is a periscope hole that only have a little black on the top and bottom of the screen (big hole) so the resolution of the image is as big as possible. The graticule on the alpha layer to be historically correct for obs and attack peri in both x1.5 and x6 (like your old SH-3 mod Hitman).

But I need someone to make the graphical layout and menu editions so the view-port is changed. I'm no eagle with menu editing.....

If you still can not find Hitman's SH-3 mod i have it saved here for a desperate attempt of doing the menu editing my self. But that would be in 2 years if no one have done it until then - that bad yea.....

[Arclight]

I already have a mod going as well that makes the changes to the zoom and elevation parameters (cameras.dat).

Also have an altered periscope mask ready with the graticules drawn on it. At the standard 1.5x zoom, the hardcoded ones aren't visible to begin with, problem is the markings are a direct copy.

Actually, don't know if it's bad, haven't tested yet. Maybe the original markings make sense once the base zoom is changed to 1.5x.



Here's the .dds, dont know if will be any good to anyone; http://www.filefront.com/15875575/Pe..._1024_SH5.dds/

[emtguf]

This is the one I have been working on.
It is very accurate with changes to the cameras.cam file at the 1.5x zoom level. If it doesnt need to be accurate at 6 then I guess it is done.

[Sailor Steve]

It looks good, and I like your 'multiplication' idea. It seems to work as it would have in real life.

[Arclight]

Aye, very nice.

What formula are you using for the calculations? Is it the same the Kaleuns used for real?