A quick question regarding long patrols.

yourgi952 · 01-13-10, 11:56 AM

Hi all, I'm new to both SHIII and this forum

I just have a quick question regarding fuel on a patrol. I am having a lot of trouble managing my fuel, for example in the very first patrol by the time i get to my assigned grid i am at 50% fuel or less and usually dont have enough or only just enough to get back to port. I'm just wondering if you guys could share any tips regarding this. One other thing is that i'm not sure if I am supposed to use the diesel engines only for traveling to my assigned grid and only use electric and submerge when i am expecting there to be hostiles? I am very interested in ww2 history but i dont know a lot when it comes to submarines or u-boats. Any help would be greatly appretiated thanks

mookiemookie · 01-13-10, 12:17 PM

The most fuel efficient speed for getting to and from your patrol grid is 9 knots. Less if you're in a Type II boat. Try that and you should have plenty of fuel to spare. I usually submerge once a day to check hydrophones. The majority of my time is spent on the surface.

KL-alfman · 01-13-10, 12:20 PM

if you are in type IIA-boat then fuel-economy really is a problem.
but at what speed do you use to sail?
try out the optimum range when changing speed down to 8-10knots.
your nav-officer will give you the estimated range at different speeds
(click the messages of the nav-officer, far-most to the left there is the estimated range at current speed)

yourgi952 · 01-13-10, 12:21 PM

Thanks Mookiemookie for the quick reply, I think that will help me alot. I'll give it a go and report back with my results

frau kaleun · 01-13-10, 12:33 PM

As a relative n00b to SH myself I haven't learned a lot yet about fuel management, but I do know something about the history.

How much time you can expect to spend on the surface vs submerged without unduly endangering your boat and crew is going to depend a lot on what time period you're playing in. Early on, as I understand it, u-boats could spend a great deal of time traveling on the surface - particularly in the wide expanses of the middle Atlantic - without undue danger of being spotted by the enemy except through luck, chance, or by giving away their own position. Allied air cover was limited and the use of radar was not as widespread, and there were limited numbers of ships available for protection of merchant shipping and even fewer that could be devoted to the express purpose of hunting for u-boats. Surfaced U-boats were also very difficult to spot by visual contact only, especially head-on and most especially at night.

As the war progressed and Allied technology and anti-submarine tactics improved, it became more and more difficult for a u-boat to travel on the surface AT ALL, even at night, without giving itself away. Air cover expanded in leaps and bounds, more warships came on line, more and more ships had radar-detection capabilities (including Allied aircraft, which I think was really the killer development, pun totally intended), and British intelligence broke the German codes and could find out exactly where specific u-boats were or were going just by following BdU's radio tranmissions.

By late 1944 it was almost impossible for a u-boat to leave a base on the French Atlantic coast and cross the Bay of Biscay into the Atlantic proper without being attacked and most probably sunk, if they traveled on the surface. Even traveling submerged by day and surfacing at night was hazardous since radar made visual contact unnecessary. If a boat was lucky it was built with or acquired a Schnorkel device which allowed the diesels to be run and batteries recharged while running submerged, and that was just about the only way anyone survived. Even then the odds weren't good.

If you don't have a Schnorkel, though, you've got to run on the surface at least long enough every day (or preferably, especially as the war wears on, every night) to refresh air supply and recharge the batteries for the e-machines. As noted above, early in the war the chances of being located and hunted down by the enemy are not as great - later on, it's almost a given that if you're on the surface, an Allied craft will find you one way or another.

How much of this is reflected 100% in game play, or with stock vs a modded game, others can weigh in on cuz I ain't that far along yet.

David I · 01-13-10, 12:40 PM

On really long patrols in a Type IX boat I travel at 8 knots on the surface. I will only pick up speed to make an intercept or to run away, if needed.

I also do most of my submerged time at a low speed of 2 knots. You run quieter and much longer. I only use higher submerged speed when I am not concerned with detection, or when trying to avoid depth charges dropped directly over my boat.

David

Pisces · 01-13-10, 01:02 PM

Some people have tested it (or the developers told it, I don't know) but the batteries are recharged with one engine going to flank setting. So running on batteries is NEVER going to be fuel efficient in the end. Except! There is still a bug that recharges the batteries (out of thin air) after you surface, even if your tanks are dry.

GoldenRivet · 01-13-10, 01:37 PM

This also depends on if you are using the stock game or using any mods.

the "world" in SH3 is flat... this stretches distance to very unrealistic levels meaning a historically accurate sub would reach its destination with a good reserve of fuel... but in SH3 it wont.

some mods will tweak fuel capacity or consumption rates to correct for this.

are you using any mods?

welcome to subsim

Sailor Steve · 01-13-10, 02:53 PM

No matter what uboat I'm driving, I use the second-to-slowest setting on the telegraph, which gives about 8-10 knots in a Type VII and 6-7 knots in a Type II, and I rarely have fuel problems.

In the patrol I'm on now I left Wilhelmshaven in a Type VIIb, cruised at that setting to BF16, and arrived there with at least 80% of my fuel on board, have been patrolling at the lowest setting (4-5 knots) and after exactly one month on station I still haven't recieved the 50% warning. When I get the 25% warning I'll head for home at the same setting, and probably arrive about the time I get the 10% warning.

Oh, GWX.

Any questions?

Wreford-Brown · 01-13-10, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

some mods will tweak fuel capacity or consumption rates

GWX 3 - Fuel Economy (25 Dec 08)
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1181
GWX 3 - Decks Awash and Fuel Economy (25 Dec 08)
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1183

A couple of mods that may help...

Onkel Neal · 01-13-10, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yourgi952@hotmail.com

Thanks Mookiemookie for the quick reply, I think that will help me alot. I'll give it a go and report back with my results

Hey mate, PM me, I want to change your username to yourgi952

I need to make sure you know this so you can log in successfully.

Neal

yourgi952 · 01-14-10, 06:14 AM

Thanks for the quick replys guys the downloads were very helpfull and i tried doin a patrol at about 9 knots and it worked out much better.

KL-alfman · 01-14-10, 11:18 AM

the question I have might fit in here best, hopefully.

I was ordered to EK74 (between Cape Verde Isles and Freetown, just SW of Dakar) and on the long way there I used up already 18eels. I do plan to visit "Python" far in the south to get replenished and would like to hunt the area around Capetown.
will I find ships there if I haven't loaded the "Indian Ocean campaign"-files?

Jimbuna · 01-14-10, 02:05 PM

Welcome to SS yourgi952

01-13-10, 11:56 AM	#1
yourgi952 Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 11 Downloads: 110 Uploads: 0	A quick question regarding long patrols. Hi all, I'm new to both SHIII and this forum I just have a quick question regarding fuel on a patrol. I am having a lot of trouble managing my fuel, for example in the very first patrol by the time i get to my assigned grid i am at 50% fuel or less and usually dont have enough or only just enough to get back to port. I'm just wondering if you guys could share any tips regarding this. One other thing is that i'm not sure if I am supposed to use the diesel engines only for traveling to my assigned grid and only use electric and submerge when i am expecting there to be hostiles? I am very interested in ww2 history but i dont know a lot when it comes to submarines or u-boats. Any help would be greatly appretiated thanks

01-13-10, 12:17 PM	#2
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	The most fuel efficient speed for getting to and from your patrol grid is 9 knots. Less if you're in a Type II boat. Try that and you should have plenty of fuel to spare. I usually submerge once a day to check hydrophones. The majority of my time is spent on the surface. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

01-13-10, 12:20 PM	#3
KL-alfman Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Weimar Posts: 930 Downloads: 86 Uploads: 0	if you are in type IIA-boat then fuel-economy really is a problem. but at what speed do you use to sail? try out the optimum range when changing speed down to 8-10knots. your nav-officer will give you the estimated range at different speeds (click the messages of the nav-officer, far-most to the left there is the estimated range at current speed) __________________ Life, Liberty and Property!

01-13-10, 01:02 PM	#7
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	Some people have tested it (or the developers told it, I don't know) but the batteries are recharged with one engine going to flank setting. So running on batteries is NEVER going to be fuel efficient in the end. Except! There is still a bug that recharges the batteries (out of thin air) after you surface, even if your tanks are dry. __________________ My site downloads: https://ricojansen.nl/downloads

01-13-10, 01:37 PM	#8
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	This also depends on if you are using the stock game or using any mods. the "world" in SH3 is flat... this stretches distance to very unrealistic levels meaning a historically accurate sub would reach its destination with a good reserve of fuel... but in SH3 it wont. some mods will tweak fuel capacity or consumption rates to correct for this. are you using any mods? welcome to subsim __________________

01-13-10, 12:21 PM	#4
yourgi952 Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 11 Downloads: 110 Uploads: 0	Thanks Mookiemookie for the quick reply, I think that will help me alot. I'll give it a go and report back with my results

01-13-10, 12:33 PM	#5
frau kaleun Rear Admiral Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Skyri--oh who are we kidding, I'm probably at Lowe's. Again. Posts: 12,706 Downloads: 168 Uploads: 0	As a relative n00b to SH myself I haven't learned a lot yet about fuel management, but I do know something about the history. How much time you can expect to spend on the surface vs submerged without unduly endangering your boat and crew is going to depend a lot on what time period you're playing in. Early on, as I understand it, u-boats could spend a great deal of time traveling on the surface - particularly in the wide expanses of the middle Atlantic - without undue danger of being spotted by the enemy except through luck, chance, or by giving away their own position. Allied air cover was limited and the use of radar was not as widespread, and there were limited numbers of ships available for protection of merchant shipping and even fewer that could be devoted to the express purpose of hunting for u-boats. Surfaced U-boats were also very difficult to spot by visual contact only, especially head-on and most especially at night. As the war progressed and Allied technology and anti-submarine tactics improved, it became more and more difficult for a u-boat to travel on the surface AT ALL, even at night, without giving itself away. Air cover expanded in leaps and bounds, more warships came on line, more and more ships had radar-detection capabilities (including Allied aircraft, which I think was really the killer development, pun totally intended), and British intelligence broke the German codes and could find out exactly where specific u-boats were or were going just by following BdU's radio tranmissions. By late 1944 it was almost impossible for a u-boat to leave a base on the French Atlantic coast and cross the Bay of Biscay into the Atlantic proper without being attacked and most probably sunk, if they traveled on the surface. Even traveling submerged by day and surfacing at night was hazardous since radar made visual contact unnecessary. If a boat was lucky it was built with or acquired a Schnorkel device which allowed the diesels to be run and batteries recharged while running submerged, and that was just about the only way anyone survived. Even then the odds weren't good. If you don't have a Schnorkel, though, you've got to run on the surface at least long enough every day (or preferably, especially as the war wears on, every night) to refresh air supply and recharge the batteries for the e-machines. As noted above, early in the war the chances of being located and hunted down by the enemy are not as great - later on, it's almost a given that if you're on the surface, an Allied craft will find you one way or another. How much of this is reflected 100% in game play, or with stock vs a modded game, others can weigh in on cuz I ain't that far along yet.

01-13-10, 12:40 PM	#6
David I Ensign Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 231 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	On really long patrols in a Type IX boat I travel at 8 knots on the surface. I will only pick up speed to make an intercept or to run away, if needed. I also do most of my submerged time at a low speed of 2 knots. You run quieter and much longer. I only use higher submerged speed when I am not concerned with detection, or when trying to avoid depth charges dropped directly over my boat. David

01-13-10, 02:53 PM	#9
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	No matter what uboat I'm driving, I use the second-to-slowest setting on the telegraph, which gives about 8-10 knots in a Type VII and 6-7 knots in a Type II, and I rarely have fuel problems. In the patrol I'm on now I left Wilhelmshaven in a Type VIIb, cruised at that setting to BF16, and arrived there with at least 80% of my fuel on board, have been patrolling at the lowest setting (4-5 knots) and after exactly one month on station I still haven't recieved the 50% warning. When I get the 25% warning I'll head for home at the same setting, and probably arrive about the time I get the 10% warning. Oh, GWX. Any questions? __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

01-14-10, 06:14 AM	#12
yourgi952 Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 11 Downloads: 110 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the quick replys guys the downloads were very helpfull and i tried doin a patrol at about 9 knots and it worked out much better.

01-14-10, 11:18 AM	#13
KL-alfman Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Weimar Posts: 930 Downloads: 86 Uploads: 0	the question I have might fit in here best, hopefully. I was ordered to EK74 (between Cape Verde Isles and Freetown, just SW of Dakar) and on the long way there I used up already 18eels. I do plan to visit "Python" far in the south to get replenished and would like to hunt the area around Capetown. will I find ships there if I haven't loaded the "Indian Ocean campaign"-files? __________________ Life, Liberty and Property!

01-14-10, 02:05 PM	#14
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,500 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Welcome to SS yourgi952 __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!