What is the more effective weapon?

Starforce2 · 11-17-09, 11:41 PM

I've seen a mod that makes a 50 cal available for the sub. I guess it was a glitch in stock or something, but I am curious, which is more effective in terms of stopping power on a given plane, the 50 cal, or the 20 mm?

Rockin Robbins · 11-18-09, 08:07 AM

Well, the 20mm is a much larger shell and was much more prevalent on submarines in an AA capacity. 50 cal was anti-personnel stuff. Very effective anti-personnel stuff!

Of course, the gotcha is that the modder can make the 20mm a better weapon against a carrier than the unmodified 5" deck gun if he wants (and I did

)

Schroeder · 11-18-09, 08:20 AM

Yes, 20mm is more effective. Larger round and the option for HE rounds.

fred8615 · 11-18-09, 09:49 AM

Yes the 20mm is the more effective AA weapon. The 50 cal is more "realistic" as that's what subs were armed with at the beginning of the war. The 20mm didn't become the standard until later.

Ducimus · 11-18-09, 11:50 AM

The 50 cal model has some wierd things going on that nobody's ever been able to figure out. It won't elevate more then a few degrees. So About the only thing it's good for raking san pans. It is possible to get them into the game, in addition to existing armarment, and you'd be in historical parameters having them in, (fleet boats had alot of deck armarment in battle surface) but it's a ton of work, and you wouldn't be able to control the 50 cals, the AI could though.

fred8615 · 11-18-09, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

The 50 cal model has some wierd things going on that nobody's ever been able to figure out. It won't elevate more then a few degrees. So About the only thing it's good for raking san pans. It is possible to get them into the game, in addition to existing armarment, and you'd be in historical parameters having them in, (fleet boats had alot of deck armarment in battle surface) but it's a ton of work, and you wouldn't be able to control the 50 cals, the AI could though.

Actually that has been fixed. You get the full range of movement with the 50 cal in my mod, and the parameters are from another user who figured out how to fix it.

Ducimus · 11-18-09, 12:56 PM

Oh snap!

DarkFish · 11-18-09, 02:19 PM

I guess it also depends on your aiming skills. the 20mm shoots about 450 shells a minute, the 50 cal about 600. So the 50 cal is better suited for spray and pray tactics, shoot in the general direction of the enemy and you'll always hit something.

Sailor Steve · 11-18-09, 03:07 PM

Both were developed at the end of WW1 as antitank weapons. The .50 cal is 12.7mm, so you can see the difference right there. The other difference was that the 20mm fired some explosive rounds, and the .50 did not.

11-18-09, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fred8615

Actually that has been fixed. You get the full range of movement with the 50 cal in my mod, and the parameters are from another user who figured out how to fix it.

i forgot to tell you i found there is still one small glitch in the 50 cal mod fred, the position is a tad lower than the 20mm is so when using it on early subs the tub rail blocks any view at or below horizontal so that setting needs to be switched to the 20mm position height and then its perfect.

fred8615 · 11-18-09, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WEBSTER

i forgot to tell you i found there is still one small glitch in the 50 cal mod fred, the position is a tad lower than the 20mm is so when using it on early subs the tub rail blocks any view at or below horizontal so that setting needs to be switched to the 20mm position height and then its perfect.

Well it's supposed to be used just for AA anyway, so it's not a big deal. May be why peabody didn't adjust the height in his original fix.

11-18-09, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fred8615

Well it's supposed to be used just for AA anyway, so it's not a big deal. May be why peabody didn't adjust the height in his original fix.

well i went to kill a landed h6k in a harbor and i couldnt reach it, in fact i doubt if i could use it on a fishing boat either so its something I would look into one day. the gun angles down just fine so you just cant see what your shooting at with that camera position.

peabody · 11-18-09, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fred8615

Well it's supposed to be used just for AA anyway, so it's not a big deal. May be why peabody didn't adjust the height in his original fix.

To make it higher you either have to lengthen the legs in a 3D program or have it float in mid air. If you want just the view higher the camera view is attached to "Dmy_12mm_Browning_Cam" node, just raise the y value a bit.

Peabody

Hylander_1314 · 11-18-09, 09:13 PM

The 50 cal worked great on Japanese planes. The F4F Wildcat, F6F Hellcat, and F4U Corsair had them as standard armaments, along the the P-47, P-51, and P-40 E, and later models. The early P-40's B,C, and D, had 2 .50 cals in the engine cowl, and 2 .30 cals in each wing. And the P-38 had 4 .50 cals, and a single 20mm as it's standard armament. So with Japanese planes having no armor plate for the pilot and engine vitals, and no self sealing gas tanks. One tracer in the tanks and they became flying Ronsons. That's the one thing about the planes, if you do hit them, and flame them, they will keep going when the plane should break up and go down. This was due to the duralumin the Japanese developed. It had a higher level of magnesium than the European and American manufacturers used. This helped to save weight, but the flipside was that the metal was more brittle, and prone to burning due to the higher ammounts of magnesium used. I've hit them in the wing root which is great for shearing wings and setting them alight, and they keep coming back for more like they were made of high strength stainless steel. Unless the damage inflicted is lighter than the damage model is showing. Also, a couple well placed 20mm rounds in the engine(s) should knock them out. The 20mm did severe damage to cylinders and crankcases. Blow a couple cylinders off with a 20mm, and you will run out of eggbeater real quick. Blast a hole in the crankcase in the front, and they lose oil real quick and seize up, which usually disintigrated the plane from the engine locking up.

fred8615 · 11-19-09, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peabody

To make it higher you either have to lengthen the legs in a 3D program or have it float in mid air. If you want just the view higher the camera view is attached to "Dmy_12mm_Browning_Cam" node, just raise the y value a bit.

Thanks! I was going to ask here today what needed to be changed if I decide to raise it later.

11-17-09, 11:41 PM	#1
Starforce2 Planesman Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: minnesota Posts: 189 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	What is the more effective weapon? I've seen a mod that makes a 50 cal available for the sub. I guess it was a glitch in stock or something, but I am curious, which is more effective in terms of stopping power on a given plane, the 50 cal, or the 20 mm? __________________ http://silenthunter.filefront.com/We accept all types of Silent hunter mods, utility and tutorial items too.

11-18-09, 08:07 AM	#2
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Well, the 20mm is a much larger shell and was much more prevalent on submarines in an AA capacity. 50 cal was anti-personnel stuff. Very effective anti-personnel stuff! Of course, the gotcha is that the modder can make the 20mm a better weapon against a carrier than the unmodified 5" deck gun if he wants (and I did) __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

11-18-09, 08:20 AM	#3
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	Yes, 20mm is more effective. Larger round and the option for HE rounds. __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.

11-18-09, 09:49 AM	#4
fred8615 Saint of the seas Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sorrento, Louisiana Posts: 1,320 Downloads: 265 Uploads: 127	Yes the 20mm is the more effective AA weapon. The 50 cal is more "realistic" as that's what subs were armed with at the beginning of the war. The 20mm didn't become the standard until later. __________________ Frederick J. Barnett Radio Stations & Music Captain's Desk Photos FJB Camera Pre Pearl Harbor Career Start Office links, Info Boxes, & 50 cal Crew Rank Fix Sub Class Info Real Subs SH4 Randomizer Sub Images Office Images Sub Pinups & Pics 24 Hour Clocks Office Posters Nav Map Make-Over Add-ons FJB Navigation Maps Office Window Chronographs Someone's got to take the responsibility if the job's going to get done! Do you think that's easy?! - Gregory Peck, The Guns of Navarone.

11-18-09, 02:19 PM	#8
DarkFish Sea Lord Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Stinking drunk in Eindhoven, the Netherlands Posts: 1,844 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 0	I guess it also depends on your aiming skills. the 20mm shoots about 450 shells a minute, the 50 cal about 600. So the 50 cal is better suited for spray and pray tactics, shoot in the general direction of the enemy and you'll always hit something. __________________

11-18-09, 11:50 AM	#5
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	The 50 cal model has some wierd things going on that nobody's ever been able to figure out. It won't elevate more then a few degrees. So About the only thing it's good for raking san pans. It is possible to get them into the game, in addition to existing armarment, and you'd be in historical parameters having them in, (fleet boats had alot of deck armarment in battle surface) but it's a ton of work, and you wouldn't be able to control the 50 cals, the AI could though.

11-18-09, 12:56 PM	#7
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Oh snap!

11-18-09, 03:07 PM	#9
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Both were developed at the end of WW1 as antitank weapons. The .50 cal is 12.7mm, so you can see the difference right there. The other difference was that the 20mm fired some explosive rounds, and the .50 did not. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

11-18-09, 09:13 PM	#14
Hylander_1314 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: 5 Miles Inland West Of Lake Huron Posts: 1,936 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	The 50 cal worked great on Japanese planes. The F4F Wildcat, F6F Hellcat, and F4U Corsair had them as standard armaments, along the the P-47, P-51, and P-40 E, and later models. The early P-40's B,C, and D, had 2 .50 cals in the engine cowl, and 2 .30 cals in each wing. And the P-38 had 4 .50 cals, and a single 20mm as it's standard armament. So with Japanese planes having no armor plate for the pilot and engine vitals, and no self sealing gas tanks. One tracer in the tanks and they became flying Ronsons. That's the one thing about the planes, if you do hit them, and flame them, they will keep going when the plane should break up and go down. This was due to the duralumin the Japanese developed. It had a higher level of magnesium than the European and American manufacturers used. This helped to save weight, but the flipside was that the metal was more brittle, and prone to burning due to the higher ammounts of magnesium used. I've hit them in the wing root which is great for shearing wings and setting them alight, and they keep coming back for more like they were made of high strength stainless steel. Unless the damage inflicted is lighter than the damage model is showing. Also, a couple well placed 20mm rounds in the engine(s) should knock them out. The 20mm did severe damage to cylinders and crankcases. Blow a couple cylinders off with a 20mm, and you will run out of eggbeater real quick. Blast a hole in the crankcase in the front, and they lose oil real quick and seize up, which usually disintigrated the plane from the engine locking up. __________________ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. -John Marshall Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ---------------------