A small Q regarding RL WW2 convoy actions if you please...

msalama · 11-14-09, 08:04 AM

Hi guys -

I'm currently reading Clay Blair's highly interesting "Hitler's U-boat war" pt. 2, and in the book he often refers to damaged cargo ships being sunk by gunfire from their own escorts. Now am I right in thinking the obvious, i.e. that this was done in order to prevent the hulks and their cargoes from falling into enemy hands?

Dread Knot · 11-14-09, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msalama

Hi guys -

I'm currently reading Clay Blair's highly interesting "Hitler's U-boat war" pt. 2, and in the book he often refers to damaged cargo ships being sunk by gunfire from their own escorts. Now am I right in thinking the obvious, i.e. that this was done in order to prevent the hulks and their cargoes from falling into enemy hands?

Most likely it was done to keep them from acting as a beacon for prowling U-Boats. A damaged cargo ship likely being on fire or smoking. In either case it's a clue that a convoy is in the area. The average U-Boat really didn't have the ability to tow hulks away, or space to take any remaining cargo onboard.

Jimbuna · 11-14-09, 08:53 AM

That is how I understand it....especially if it was near a coastline because of the risk of pollution and the hazards to other shipping if in a navigable channel.

msalama · 11-14-09, 08:54 AM

RGT Dreadknot & Jimbuna, makes sense...

Lt.Fillipidis · 11-14-09, 09:05 AM

An IX could tow a small vessel to the port if it was nessesary, couldnt it?
Are there any similar incidents?

Dread Knot · 11-14-09, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lt.Fillipidis

An IX could tow a small vessel to the port if it was nessesary, couldnt it?
Are there any similar incidents?

I've never heard of German subs taking prizes. Maybe going onboard to search for the ship's papers, but that's it. By the period of the war msalma is talking about towing a hulk back to France would be a suicide mission.

Jimbuna · 11-14-09, 09:14 AM

A Kaleun would never risk his boat to attack on the surface

Dread Knot · 11-14-09, 10:31 AM

Most likely another reason for finishing off a crippled merchant was intelligence. If a U-Boat comes across a drifting hulk he gets a name and registry number. Bdu then has a more exact idea of how well it did that previous night in tonnage. Better to keep the enemy guessing.

Radio · 11-14-09, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dread Knot

I've never heard of German subs taking prizes. Maybe going onboard to search for the ship's papers, but that's it. By the period of the war msalma is talking about towing a hulk back to France would be a suicide mission.

In the book "Jäger und Gejagte" (Hunter and Hunted) there was a RL story of a german boat that picked up crates from a sunken ship, only to discover to their huge dissapointment that there were clothes in it. And they picked up sacks of flour, the flour had a thin skin of saltwater/flour-stuff under which the flour was perfectly good.

They did not dare to repeat those manoeuvers because of the risk of airplanes.

Yarr!

jrkepler · 11-15-09, 08:02 AM

I'm not exactly sure of their motivation or reasoning, but knowing what I know, if I found a disabled ship, empty or full I know exactly what I'd do. Drain every last drop of diesel off of her. That I would risk life, crew and boat for. The type XIV boats are cursed, its like the allies know their every move and are just waiting for us to link up.

psykopatsak · 11-15-09, 10:01 AM

problem is that many cargo freighters ran on steam. not much diesel abord then...

Torplexed · 11-15-09, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrkepler

I'm not exactly sure of their motivation or reasoning, but knowing what I know, if I found a disabled ship, empty or full I know exactly what I'd do. Drain every last drop of diesel off of her. That I would risk life, crew and boat for. The type XIV boats are cursed, its like the allies know their every move and are just waiting for us to link up.

Unless you had the incredible luck to come across an unburnt-out tanker porting diesel oil you won't find much. Most WW2 merchant vessel powerplants ran on coal or heavy fuel oil, because they were cheap.

Jimbuna · 11-15-09, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torplexed

Unless you had the incredible luck to come across an unburnt-out tanker porting diesel oil you won't find much. Most WW2 merchant vessel powerplants ran on coal or heavy fuel oil, because they were cheap.

Precisely....and before the heavy oil was of use it first had to be run through the purifiers...not many subs would have the capability.

11-17-09, 11:59 PM

They were sunk primarily because they present a hazard to navigation.

Oneshot/Onekill · 11-18-09, 02:53 AM

There were instance's of the PRIZE regulations being enforced in WWI, more so than in WWII. In those case's that I remember reading about, the U-boat would stop and search a vessel. If war materials were found on board, the U-boat depending on its location could call for a tug, or a vessel to tow the merchant to a German port for capture. The second option, which of course was far less harzardous to the Gremans was to evacuate the crew, and sink the ship.

The influence of the Kaluen's desicion, had alot to do with what kind of cargo he came across.

In WWII, with the advance's of aircraft, and radar, technology dictated that it was easier and far less risky just to simply sink the ship.

11-14-09, 08:04 AM	#1
msalama Samurai Navy Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: In an octopus's garden Posts: 565 Downloads: 99 Uploads: 0	A small Q regarding RL WW2 convoy actions if you please... Hi guys - I'm currently reading Clay Blair's highly interesting "Hitler's U-boat war" pt. 2, and in the book he often refers to damaged cargo ships being sunk by gunfire from their own escorts. Now am I right in thinking the obvious, i.e. that this was done in order to prevent the hulks and their cargoes from falling into enemy hands? Last edited by msalama; 11-14-09 at 08:23 AM.

11-14-09, 08:53 AM	#3
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,500 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	That is how I understand it....especially if it was near a coastline because of the risk of pollution and the hazards to other shipping if in a navigable channel. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-14-09, 09:14 AM	#7
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,500 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	A Kaleun would never risk his boat to attack on the surface __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-14-09, 08:54 AM	#4
msalama Samurai Navy Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: In an octopus's garden Posts: 565 Downloads: 99 Uploads: 0	RGT Dreadknot & Jimbuna, makes sense...

11-14-09, 09:05 AM	#5
Lt.Fillipidis Weps Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Veria, Greece Posts: 365 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	An IX could tow a small vessel to the port if it was nessesary, couldnt it? Are there any similar incidents?

11-14-09, 10:31 AM	#8
Dread Knot Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,288 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Most likely another reason for finishing off a crippled merchant was intelligence. If a U-Boat comes across a drifting hulk he gets a name and registry number. Bdu then has a more exact idea of how well it did that previous night in tonnage. Better to keep the enemy guessing.

11-15-09, 08:02 AM	#10
jrkepler Nub Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 4 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I'm not exactly sure of their motivation or reasoning, but knowing what I know, if I found a disabled ship, empty or full I know exactly what I'd do. Drain every last drop of diesel off of her. That I would risk life, crew and boat for. The type XIV boats are cursed, its like the allies know their every move and are just waiting for us to link up.

11-15-09, 10:01 AM	#11
psykopatsak Medic Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Grid AO27 Posts: 161 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 0	problem is that many cargo freighters ran on steam. not much diesel abord then...

11-17-09, 11:59 PM	#14
Snestorm Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	They were sunk primarily because they present a hazard to navigation.