Lets go Green !!!

[SteamWake]

Greenbacks that is !

WASHINGTON — Former Vice President Al Gore thought he had spotted a winner last year when a small California firm sought financing for an energy-saving technology from the venture capitol firm where Mr. Gore is a partner.

Article on Al Gore's role both as an advocate and an investor.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/bu...nt/03gore.html

[Zachstar]

He made a good investment! Great on him!

I know that many gore haters will scream the usual money whore type comments. However in this nation there is nothing wrong with saying good things about something you have money in. Or better yet putting your money where your mouth is. Markets the way they are some of these huge solar investments have flopped. There is significant risk involved in such investments.

There is boatloads of tech right now ripe for risky investment tho. If I had the funds I would put serious investments into Algae to Oil efforts. As fusion does little good for fuel eating jetliners. Algae oil would stabilize the liquid energy markets. And drive away the power of OPEC. Not to mention it has more uses than Washington carver's peanuts!

[ETR3(SS)]

Al gets a +1 for not being stupid for once. Althought I do love this "internet" he has invented.

[Zachstar]

Originally Posted by ETR3(SS)

Al gets a +1 for not being stupid for once. Althought I do love this "internet" he has invented.

I would say far more than once he has a history of great investments such as google and apple. And looks like quite a diverse bit of investments in green tech. That Waterless urinal sounds interesting as the design is actually cheaper than a conventional urinal. Basically guaranteeing large adoption.

[SteamWake]

Yea its almost as if he knew where the market would be pushed... er... sorry going.

Silver Spring Networks is a foot soldier in the global green energy revolution Mr. Gore hopes to lead.

Critics, mostly on the political right and among global warming skeptics, say Mr. Gore is poised to become the world’s first “carbon billionaire,” profiteering from government policies he supports that would direct billions of dollars to the business ventures he has invested in.

Count me among those critics. At best its unethical.

[Zachstar]

Unethical? BS he is a private citizen who pushed for green tech. He has been out of the white house for close to a decade now.

That is like saying Boeing is profiting off military contracts it supports.. um ok?

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Unethical? BS he is a private citizen who pushed for green tech. He has been out of the white house for close to a decade now.

That is like saying Boeing is profiting off military contracts it supports.. um ok?

I think you are mostly correct about this ZS. No one can blame Gore for taking advantage of market trends, or for privately pushing his climate change agenda. He should, and does, have the right to do those things.

However, his behaviour, and the behaviour of other leaders of the "green" movement becomes unethical when they begin pushing for legislation to promote their industry, which Gore has on multiple occassions and by multiple methods. He is taking a lawful business investment and trying to fiat its' success by using legislature.

Honestly, I can't even really blame him for doing that. I'm not even surprised. Many business firms have, for more than a century, been doing the exact same thing. For a recent example, look at the corn-ethanol lobby. Beyond that you can look at the steel and aluminum industries, oil industry, transportation industry, etc etc.... The blame falls on us, as taxpayers and citizens, for providing the state with power that can be co-opted by self-interested entities.

I don't even really have a problem with the green industry. If consumers want "green" products then I say more power to the firms that will supply them, no matter how silly I think the green movement is. Where I draw the line, however, is allowing green consumers or politicians to mandate the production methods of products that I purchase or services I use.
The state has already demonstrated a complete lack of ability to legislate green transitions in a sustainable (or even reasonable) manner, as evidenced by the Energy Standards Act of 2005, the Renewable Fuels Mandate of 2007, and the entire State of California, just to mention a few examples.

I know that you are a forward-thinking and very intelligent individual, and I applaud that. I encourage you to pursue the energy and green agendas you have posited before, but please do it the right way. Invest in firms that show a promising ability to market green tech, or give public speeches about the need for green industry, or just continue presenting your views on this forum, but don't support mandates of any kind, or people who encourage such mandates.

If state intervention is somehow required for social benefit, then support the right way to do that, too. Give the Federal government the legal power to regulate energy or industry through constitutional amendment. Just be prepared to deal with the consequences.

[SteamWake]

If it is so above board and beyond reproach, why go to great lengths to deny it?



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...l_warming.html

[AVGWarhawk]

Zachstar can say what he likes, a politician is a politician. Of course there is collusion. Keep an eye on General Electric and the healthcare legislation flying around Washington.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

If it is so above board and beyond reproach, why go to great lengths to deny it?



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...l_warming.html

Where does he deny it? He expressly says that he is investing in the industry because he believes in it. I don't see him denying the intention to profit anywhere whatsoever in the clip you provided.

I often agree with you, SW, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree in the "Gore forest" here. The problem isn't so much that Gore is profiting from green industry or supporting it through investment, it is that he is helping to create artificial demand for such things, and he is using the state to create that demand.

Perhaps you misstated yourself, or perhaps I misunderstood the point you were driving at, but I am sure that ultimately, we have the same opinion.

What you mean to say is that you oppose Gore's use of the state and the elctorate to push his own business agenda, yes?

[Zachstar]

There is no "Artificial Demand" for grid improvements. There is massive demand due to new power plants opening and massive amounts of alt energy installations. That is not going to change. Our grid is a joke. Its old and prone to failure and any way to increase its efficiency is not only good for the environment but good for business.

And seriously I am wondering that the surprise is about. Is this not the same as Boeing supporting the military buying its aircraft or oil firms campaigning for opening up tar sands and offshore drilling more?

And yes I fully support mandates because many businesses are scared to look a few years ahead. They assumed too much that market forces would keep oil at just above 100USD and they got their butts handed to them with hyper expensive transportation fuels. Green tech developments are not just important for Al Gore and greenies or polar bears. They are a major part of national security and national economy in a crisis.

For instance the US Armed forces are the ones mainly pushing Algae oil tech. The only alternative to them to get away from fossil oil is Gas to Liquids or Coal to liquids which are known as massively expensive alternatives that belch Co2 like crazy. The Air force depends on years of fuel to keep its buffs flying but a company often just thinks in quarters.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

Where does he deny it? He expressly says that he is investing in the industry because he believes in it.

Well that at least gives people a hint why he won't debate anybody on the issue. He actually has a financial stake in it.

To me Gore is a discredited fraud 10 times over. But he is a salesman indeed making a living off of scaring the wits out of people on this issue. Just like many before him has done.

[Zachstar]

Gore seriously started us on a path away from Terrorist oil. That I give him credit for. Despite your slanderous fraud claim. Gore makes good investments and talks them up for profit. Just like just about every business in the states.

And frankly I could care less what he is making off of this. He reinvests it in other green companies that move us further and further away from terrorist oil.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

Gore seriously started us on a path away from Terrorist oil. That I give him credit for. Despite your slanderous fraud claim. Gore makes good investments and talks them up for profit. Just like just about every business in the states.

And frankly I could care less what he is making off of this. He reinvests it in other green companies that move us further and further away from terrorist oil.

I don't care what he makes either. Let him do it. I'm just looking at it from the standpoint that he won't debate anyone on it, and he makes money off of people's false fears. Big deal. He's a slick salesman. And yes, a total fraud.

And we still need oil. Like it or not. Too bad we aren't tapping our own reserves in the several regions we have it. The Gulf of Mexico has quite a bit on it's own. I guess it's just easier to let China and Cuba have it. I don't think the oil down there belongs to "terrorists".

[Zachstar]

As long as we are using more oil than our wells that are running TODAY are producing we are one way or another buying terrorist oil.

New production takes 10 years from approval to market. = useless

Tho I have to admit I am intrigued by the idea of using laser cutting to recover more oil in existing sites. It uses alot more power but it is fast and does not contact the surface. They are saying it could cut down drilling on land by a third.

You see despite the shrill calls to give the oil companies whatever the hell they want. They can and are evolving on their own. And boatloads of new tech investments are slowly but surely starting to reduce the need for oil. Of course my favorite is Algae oil. But things such as replacing oil plastics with american grown bioplastics are good investments as well in my opinion.