Reminder (for those in the UK)

sergei · 09-20-09, 12:23 PM

Don't forget last part of 'Atlantic Convoys' on C4 at 7pm!

flakmonkey · 09-20-09, 01:52 PM

Bugger!! Its now 7:40, i had a feeling i was forgetting something, oh well have to catch up with it on 4od.

Jimbuna · 09-20-09, 03:29 PM

Fortunately I taped it on a previous showing.

flag4 · 09-20-09, 05:02 PM

it never stops amazing me, the sheer waste of human dedication and bravery of the 28-30.000 men who gave it their all for an ideology that - in hindsight, was doomed and evil from the begining.

they may have severd the convoys and began starving britain of supplies. but the brits would never have given in. and i think the americans would have rolled across the atlantic anyway.

the uboats had the edge, in a way, in the early part of the war but command and higher failed to capitalise on the success with new technology, more boats, and the blind refusal to realise the enigma was broken even though Kaleu's and crew KNEW something like this had happend.

but hindsight is easy...

i think i could rattle on for hours but it begins to make me angry at the almost fruitlessness of it all.....but hell, what an adventure!!

it still facinates me and i keep reading the history, buying the dvd's hoping for new material to get a different slant on it all, but they lost! maybe thats the facination, the collosal loss on both sides.

even in the game when the depth charges come down i get tense and start thinking of the crew and my boat. ITS A GAME ITS A GAME!! i tell myself over and over again...but the reality of it is awsome, all those men

...i'm off to bed!

papa_smurf · 09-21-09, 05:17 AM

I still cannot believe Doenitz sent his crews into a desperate attack during Operation Overlord. He must of know that his crews wouldn't come back.

Once the allies had closed the air gap and had perfected hunting techniques combined with a tecnological advantage, the U-boats didn't stand a chance. It was more a case of survival rather than sinking tonnage.

We must not forget the sacrifice made by all during the Battle for the Atlantic.

Mopy · 09-21-09, 05:23 AM

Looks like they got EP4 up on 4oD nice and early this time. It was a good series, especially the part about the way the allies foiled acoustic torpedo's - I didn't know that. Lots of familiar stock footage heheh.

Worth watching

von hally · 09-21-09, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa_smurf

I still cannot believe Doenitz sent his crews into a desperate attack during Operation Overlord. He must of know that his crews wouldn't come back.
.

They were ordered to ram surface ships when out of torpedoes...suicide basically!!!!

dont know if this came from Doenitz......but seems a shocking order for such loyalty from the crews through the war

sergei · 09-21-09, 05:24 PM

Just finished reading an excellent book 'War Beneath The Sea' by Peter Padfield.
In it I found a transcript of an order Donitz made on April 1st 1944 headed 'Reckless Attack!', regarding the expected allied invasion.

Every enemy vessel taking part in the landing, even if it only carries half a hundred soldiers or one tank, is a target which demands the full mission of the U-Boat. It is to be attacked even if this carries the risk of the loss of one's own boat. If it is a question of approaching the enemy invasion fleet no regard is to be paid to dangers such as flat water or possible mine barriers or any other considerations. Every man and weapon of the enemy destroyed before landing reduces the enemy prospects of success. The boat that causes the enemy losses in the invasion has fulfilled its highest task and justified its existence, even if it is lost.

Very close to an order to go on a suicide mission. Only a few crews made it back, but none of them were admonished for their lack of success or even the fact that they made it back when so many of their comrades had not.
I think Donitz realised they had tried their best in an impossible situation.

Also it must be remembered that by this time, Donitz was no longer head of the just U-boat arm, but head of the Navy and had moved Headquarters to Berlin. He no longer had day to day contact with his Uboatmen.
The above order sounds more like one of Hitlers 'to the last man, to the last bullet' orders doesn't it? Maybe he was now spending so much time in Hitlers inner circle that it was difficult not to be affected by his paranoid fanatacism?

09-20-09, 12:23 PM	#1
sergei Sea Lord Join Date: May 2008 Location: London UK Posts: 1,788 Downloads: 405 Uploads: 29	Reminder (for those in the UK) Don't forget last part of 'Atlantic Convoys' on C4 at 7pm!

09-20-09, 01:52 PM	#2
flakmonkey Grey Wolf Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Staffordshire, Uk Posts: 944 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	Bugger!! Its now 7:40, i had a feeling i was forgetting something, oh well have to catch up with it on 4od. __________________

09-20-09, 03:29 PM	#3
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,500 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Fortunately I taped it on a previous showing. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

09-20-09, 05:02 PM	#4
flag4 Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Location: as far away as possible Posts: 1,625 Downloads: 147 Uploads: 0	it never stops amazing me, the sheer waste of human dedication and bravery of the 28-30.000 men who gave it their all for an ideology that - in hindsight, was doomed and evil from the begining. they may have severd the convoys and began starving britain of supplies. but the brits would never have given in. and i think the americans would have rolled across the atlantic anyway. the uboats had the edge, in a way, in the early part of the war but command and higher failed to capitalise on the success with new technology, more boats, and the blind refusal to realise the enigma was broken even though Kaleu's and crew KNEW something like this had happend. but hindsight is easy... i think i could rattle on for hours but it begins to make me angry at the almost fruitlessness of it all.....but hell, what an adventure!! it still facinates me and i keep reading the history, buying the dvd's hoping for new material to get a different slant on it all, but they lost! maybe thats the facination, the collosal loss on both sides. even in the game when the depth charges come down i get tense and start thinking of the crew and my boat. ITS A GAME ITS A GAME!! i tell myself over and over again...but the reality of it is awsome, all those men ...i'm off to bed! __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] ' We are here on Earth to fart around. Don't let anybody tell you any different.' Kurt Vonnegut

09-21-09, 05:17 AM	#5
papa_smurf Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: High Peak, Derbyshire Posts: 2,851 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	I still cannot believe Doenitz sent his crews into a desperate attack during Operation Overlord. He must of know that his crews wouldn't come back. Once the allies had closed the air gap and had perfected hunting techniques combined with a tecnological advantage, the U-boats didn't stand a chance. It was more a case of survival rather than sinking tonnage. We must not forget the sacrifice made by all during the Battle for the Atlantic. __________________

09-21-09, 05:23 AM	#6
Mopy Torpedoman Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 118 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Looks like they got EP4 up on 4oD nice and early this time. It was a good series, especially the part about the way the allies foiled acoustic torpedo's - I didn't know that. Lots of familiar stock footage heheh. Worth watching

09-21-09, 05:24 PM	#8
sergei Sea Lord Join Date: May 2008 Location: London UK Posts: 1,788 Downloads: 405 Uploads: 29	Just finished reading an excellent book 'War Beneath The Sea' by Peter Padfield. In it I found a transcript of an order Donitz made on April 1st 1944 headed 'Reckless Attack!', regarding the expected allied invasion. Every enemy vessel taking part in the landing, even if it only carries half a hundred soldiers or one tank, is a target which demands the full mission of the U-Boat. It is to be attacked even if this carries the risk of the loss of one's own boat. If it is a question of approaching the enemy invasion fleet no regard is to be paid to dangers such as flat water or possible mine barriers or any other considerations. Every man and weapon of the enemy destroyed before landing reduces the enemy prospects of success. The boat that causes the enemy losses in the invasion has fulfilled its highest task and justified its existence, even if it is lost. Very close to an order to go on a suicide mission. Only a few crews made it back, but none of them were admonished for their lack of success or even the fact that they made it back when so many of their comrades had not. I think Donitz realised they had tried their best in an impossible situation. Also it must be remembered that by this time, Donitz was no longer head of the just U-boat arm, but head of the Navy and had moved Headquarters to Berlin. He no longer had day to day contact with his Uboatmen. The above order sounds more like one of Hitlers 'to the last man, to the last bullet' orders doesn't it? Maybe he was now spending so much time in Hitlers inner circle that it was difficult not to be affected by his paranoid fanatacism?