Iron coffins.... indeed.

[kv29]

I was reading about ww2 subs being found here and there from time to time, and I was wondering, what would it be to be able to enter one of those "iron coffins"?

the ones that might be still sealed I mean, those that got sunk by different causes than flooding.

Would be wonderful, and terrible at the same time. I hope you know what I mean.

[donut]

[mookiemookie]

http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Divers-.../dp/0375508589

I know its not a a fleet boat, but I would say order that book. They treat the men who went down with that U-boat with the respect they deserve, while still exploring the wreck.

Otherwise, let the dead rest.

[gimpy117]

we usually leave the dead undisturbed as a sign of respect.

[kv29]

No, I don´t mean disrispect.
I know about american policy not to touch sub wrecks out of respect. Im talking about genuine archaeological interest. They are time capsules after all.

Of course, I cannot separate the emotional aspect of it. Perhaps is too soon to talk about something like this.
Mookie, I will take a look at it. Thanks!

Peace.

[Hitman]

The concept of war grave seems to fade away with time . We do respect now the dead from WW2, but apparently have no respect for old egyptian tombs and such.

Rest in peace, archeology is not justificable when we know well all about those men and machines.

[AVGWarhawk]

The submarine found off the New Jersey coast was entered. I do remember the divers who wrote the book that they did see skeletal remains but left them undisturbed. I think they are considered war memorials and are left undisturbed. I often wonder if any of the living next of kin wanted their loved ones remains returned to them for burial. Kind of like MIA and then remains found. Said remains returned to the family.

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by kv29

I was reading about ww2 subs being found here and there from time to time, and I was wondering, what would it be to be able to enter one of those "iron coffins"?

the ones that might be still sealed I mean, those that got sunk by different causes than flooding.

Would be wonderful, and terrible at the same time. I hope you know what I mean.

Like it was said before, these boats are war graves, no different than a cemetery.There are plenty of submarines converted to museum purposes and that's where you have your archaeological interest. Going into any sunken submarine just isn't right to me, regardless of the nationality. All submariners past and present share a common bond of brotherhood, it's like being part of the worlds largest family. As for your statement about "sunk by other means than flooding", what other means?

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

The submarine found off the New Jersey coast was entered. I do remember the divers who wrote the book that they did see skeletal remains but left them undisturbed. I think they are considered war memorials and are left undisturbed. I often wonder if any of the living next of kin wanted their loved ones remains returned to them for burial. Kind of like MIA and then remains found. Said remains returned to the family.

That's the one I posted. Great book. And they do mention how respectful they were of the remains they found.

[ddrgn]

I don't quite understand this... If I was a corpse on a sunken sub I surely wouldn't want to spend eternity stuck in the tin can. By all means come down, find my corpse and bury me close to my family.

Not sure where this all came from, I know its a hard coded view, but for me, bring me home to my family and at the same time check out the artifacts I had on me along the way..

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

That's the one I posted. Great book. And they do mention how respectful they were of the remains they found.

Sry Mookie, yeah 'Shadow Divers'. I could not remember the title. It is a good book.

[Akula4745]

While I understand the noble concept and agree completely with respecting war graves... the spirit, life force, energy (whatever you choose to call it) of those men, no matter the nationality, are not trapped within the broken metal hulls - returning bones to a favored hillside is something to make the living feel better about the loss... if I died with my shipmates on a sub, the sea would take good care of my bones.

No offense, ddrgn... just my opinion.

More info on the sub off New jersey... http://www.u869.com/
And the Nova TV special - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostsub/
And Uboat.net - http://uboat.net/boats/u869.htm

[kv29]

I see everybody´s point of view, but I believe retrieving those subs gives the oportunity to make a true memorial, a place where family can mourn their losses and more people can acknowledge those men achievements, how they lived, what they did and why they died.

Imagine a place where you can visit and pay tribute to men like Mush Morton or Gunter Prien on their final resting place. Or you prefer to go to the middle of the ocean and drop some flowers? How many of you can do that?

Wth, its a question of pure humanity.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by kv29

I see everybody´s point of view, but I believe retrieving those subs gives the oportunity to make a true memorial, a place where family can mourn their losses and more people can acknowledge those men achievements, how they lived, what they did and why they died.

Imagine a place where you can visit and pay tribute to men like Mush Morton or Gunter Prien on their final resting place. Or you prefer to go to the middle of the ocean and drop some flowers? How many of you can do that?

Wth, its a question of pure humanity.

Well, it is a catch 22. Not all subs have their exact location known. Nor will they. So, if you pull up one and do the burial on the good green earth everyone else will want the same for their sailor who did not make it back. That is a bill that can not be filled by man power and or monetary power. Not to mention subs that ended in the great northern trench. We just can not work in that high pressure underwater environment. Perhaps if a submarine is happened upon then maybe ask the living relatives what they want but we can not make an all out effort to find the hundreds of uboats and the 50 odd fleet boats on the bottom. In short, a daunting task.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Akula4745

While I understand the noble concept and agree completely with respecting war graves... the spirit, life force, energy (whatever you choose to call it) of those men, no matter the nationality, are not trapped within the broken metal hulls - returning bones to a favored hillside is something to make the living feel better about the loss... if I died with my shipmates on a sub, the sea would take good care of my bones.

No offense, ddrgn... just my opinion.

More info on the sub off New jersey... http://www.u869.com/
And the Nova TV special - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostsub/
And Uboat.net - http://uboat.net/boats/u869.htm

True, returning the remains does make the family feel better about the loss and or makes them feel whole again. My uncle was buried in England after he killed in his B-17. The airforce asked my grandmother if she wanted him disentured and brought home. She said yes. He now rest in Flushing Cemetery NY. This was his home town he grew up in. It just seemed right to have him home. Anyway, yeah, you can leave my bones to the fish also.