inducing cells from connective tissue in mice to revert back to their embryonic state

SUBMAN1 · 07-23-09, 08:11 PM

Let me guess, they will still want embryonic babies anyway after this breakthrough:

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline...nnounced-.html

-S

Stealth Hunter · 07-23-09, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Let me guess, they will still want embryonic babies anyway after this breakthrough

Well it's not like we should just completely abandon research on embryonic stem cells. We still have a lot to learn about them, but we have even more to learn about these new iPS cells. Furthermore, what valuable knowledge might we gain from comparing the two? That's the real question I'm interested in.

Oh and for the record- embryos are not babies; if you're a baby, then you're out of the womb. If you're an embryo, then you're not even in the fetal stage yet. You're just a mass of clumped cells that are undergoing the earliest possible stages of growth and differentiation. You have no capacity to think, you have no feelings, hell none of your vital organs have even formed properly yet.

Aramike · 07-24-09, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Oh and for the record- embryos are not babies; if you're a baby, then you're out of the womb.

So wait, you're saying that a bunch of embrionic cells out of the womb and in a dish are babies?

Stealth Hunter · 07-24-09, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramike

So wait, you're saying that a bunch of embrionic cells out of the womb and in a dish are babies?

If you're an embryo, then you're not even in the fetal stage yet. You're just a mass of clumped cells that are undergoing the earliest possible stages of growth and differentiation. You have no capacity to think, you have no feelings, hell none of your vital organs have even formed properly yet.

Platapus · 07-24-09, 06:01 AM

<Microwaving the popcorn>

Anyone got some beer?

There is a good show starting on Subsim!

Aramike · 07-24-09, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Hunter

If you're an embryo, then you're not even in the fetal stage yet. You're just a mass of clumped cells that are undergoing the earliest possible stages of growth and differentiation. You have no capacity to think, you have no feelings, hell none of your vital organs have even formed properly yet.

I don't disagree. I was referring to the specifics of your previous post, and making a point about the grey areas when it comes to life.

antikristuseke · 07-24-09, 06:22 AM

Personaly, I think that both areas of research should be open.

SUBMAN1 · 07-24-09, 08:11 PM

I don't know, but maybe you guys didn't read the fine print, but what exactly would you call the difference between an embryonic stem cell, and a cell that is now in an embryonic state? Hello? Lucy? Anyone home in your brains up there? They are now one and the same. Maybe you guys missed that point when you called for a comparison of the two.

-S

Stealth Hunter · 07-24-09, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

I don't know, but maybe you guys didn't read the fine print, but what exactly would you call the difference between an embryonic stem cell, and a cell that is now in an embryonic state? Hello? Lucy? Anyone home in your brains up there? They are now one and the same. Maybe you guys missed that point when you called for a comparison of the two.

"They are now one in the same"?

Yeah, that's exactly what people thought about adult stem cells and embryonic stem cells five years ago. That did indeed appear to be the case; derived from different sources but producing the same effects in the same manner. Then more research was done and it was found that their original conclusion was wrong.

You are aware, for example, that embryonic stem cells have the ability to divide and replicate faster than adult stem cells, right? Were you also aware that they have several protein compounds not found in adult stem cells? These things were previously unknown until further research was done, something which you'd be quick to abandon in this case.

When you get into this kind of stuff, it is imperative for the sake of future research and results-and for separating fact from opinion from fiction-- that you find what is and is not different between the two. Which is, as I also mentioned, precisely why we need to do more research between the two and not suddenly just cease all studies in one or the other.

SUBMAN1 · 07-24-09, 11:32 PM

Clue #1 - they called them adult stem cells.

Duh!

-S

Stealth Hunter · 07-25-09, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Clue #1 - they called them adult stem cells.

Duh!

Do you not see how the exact same statement you posted could be logically applied to iPS cells and embryonic stem cells? Apparently not...

SUBMAN1 · 07-25-09, 11:48 AM

Are you being serious?

No it can't! A cell in an embryonic state is a cell in embryonic state. Go read the damn article already. Thanks for the laugh though!

-S

Zachstar · 07-25-09, 03:08 PM

The laugh is on you. As there has been report after report of what happens to these cells when they are not needed.

Destroyed and put into the trash. So much for pro-life eh?

The debate is over. It will be funded again. They BOTH will be used and science will continue with less fundie influence. Hallelujah!

Stealth Hunter · 07-25-09, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Are you being serious? No it can't! A cell in an embryonic state is a cell in embryonic state. Go read the damn article already. Thanks for the laugh though!

You were saying that because the names were different between embryonic stem cells and adult stem cells that we should have known three years ago that they had totally different makeup properties and characteristics, just because of the name. You further more claimed that iPS cells and embryonic stem cells were exactly alike even though we haven't done as much research on iPS cells as we have on the latter.

Ergo, it is entirely possible to apply your "logic" on the embryonic stem cells and adult stem cells to the iPS cells and embryonic stem cells.

Are you really so illiterate to the concerning matter that you cannot carry through with a detailed conversation? Apparently, you are. Further tests and research studies are needed between the two, further tests and studies will be done on both of them, deal with it. KTHANKS.

Just because they appear to be similar does not mean there aren't any differences between the two; even so, you would have all research thrown out for these iPS cells that we still know very little about. We learned that lesson with adult stem cells and embryonic stem cells. Derived from different sources but capable of the same effects; however adult stem cells were and are less effective than embryonic stem cells because they lack some of the proteins embryonic stem cells have and they furthermore do not divide and replicate as fast as the latter.

This, for the last time, is exactly the reason WHY we need more research done between the two so we can find out what is different. Thankfully, the people working on the project won't listen to people like you.

07-24-09, 06:01 AM	#5
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,361 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	<Microwaving the popcorn> Anyone got some beer? There is a good show starting on Subsim! __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

07-24-09, 08:11 PM	#8
SUBMAN1 Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11,866 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I don't know, but maybe you guys didn't read the fine print, but what exactly would you call the difference between an embryonic stem cell, and a cell that is now in an embryonic state? Hello? Lucy? Anyone home in your brains up there? They are now one and the same. Maybe you guys missed that point when you called for a comparison of the two. -S __________________

07-24-09, 11:32 PM	#10
SUBMAN1 Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11,866 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Clue #1 - they called them adult stem cells. Duh! -S __________________

07-25-09, 11:48 AM	#12
SUBMAN1 Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11,866 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Are you being serious? No it can't! A cell in an embryonic state is a cell in embryonic state. Go read the damn article already. Thanks for the laugh though! -S __________________

07-25-09, 03:08 PM	#13
Zachstar Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shreveport, Louisiana Posts: 1,956 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	The laugh is on you. As there has been report after report of what happens to these cells when they are not needed. Destroyed and put into the trash. So much for pro-life eh? The debate is over. It will be funded again. They BOTH will be used and science will continue with less fundie influence. Hallelujah! __________________

07-23-09, 08:11 PM	#1
SUBMAN1 Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11,866 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	inducing cells from connective tissue in mice to revert back to their embryonic state Let me guess, they will still want embryonic babies anyway after this breakthrough: http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline...nnounced-.html -S __________________

07-24-09, 06:22 AM	#7
antikristuseke Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Estland Posts: 4,330 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Personaly, I think that both areas of research should be open.