Values: Conservative vs. Liberal

Buddahaid · 07-04-09, 10:17 AM

Let's find out what our viewers define as conservative values and liberal values. I'm betting there's not as wide of a gap as some of us think.

But first, we must define what the values are. Can it be boiled down to a few categories? Or is the devil in the details?

Religious?

Family?

Country?

Personal?

Life?

EDIT: Here's the text and a link to where it's from for some points.

http://www.classroomhelp.com/lessons...efinition.html

Return to the Core Democratic Home Page.

Core Democratic Values

This section is divided into two parts the Fundamental Beliefs (Often referred to as the Core Democratic Values of Elementary Students.) and the Constitutional Principals.
Fundamental Beliefs

Life: A person's right to life can't be violated except if your life or the lives of others is threatened.
Liberty: This includes personal freedom, political freedom, and economic freedom. This is the freedom for people to gather in groups. They have their own beliefs, ideas and opinions. People also have the right to express their opinions in public.

Personal Freedom - the right to think and act without government control.
Political Freedom - the right to participate in political process.
Economic Freedom - the right to buy, sell and trade private property and the right to employment without the government interfering.

The Pursuit of Happiness: As long as you don't interfere with others you have the right to seek happiness in your own way.
Common Good: Working together for the welfare of the community or the benefit of all.
Justice: All people should be treated fairly in both the benefits and the obligations of society. No individual or group should be favored over another person or group.
Equality: Everyone has the right to Political, Legal, Social and Economic Equality. Everyone has the right to the same treatment regardless of race, sex, religion, heritage, or economic status.
Diversity: The differences in culture, dress, language, heritage and religion are not just tolerated, but celebrated as a strength.
Truth: They should expect and demand that the government not lie to them and the government should disclose information to the people. The government and its people should not lie.
Popular Sovereignty: The power of the government comes from the people. The people are the ultimate authority over the government.
Patriotism: The people or citizens show a love and devotion for their country and the values. They can show this by words or by actions.
Constitutional Principles

Rule of Law: Both the people and the government must obey all laws.
Separation of Powers: The executive, legislative and judicial branches of the government should be separate institutions so no one branch has all of the power.
Representative Government: People have the right to elect others to represent them in the government.
Checks and Balances: The powers of the three branches of government, executive, legislative and judicial, should be balanced. No one branch should be dominate. Each branch should have powers to check the actions of the other branches.
Individual Rights: Each individual has the fundamental right to life, liberty, economic freedom and the pursuit of happiness. These rights are outlined in the Bill of Rights and the government should protect these rights and not place undo restrictions upon them.
Freedom of Religion: The right to practice any or no religion without persecution by the government.
Federalism: The states and the federal government share power as outlined by the Constitution.
Civilian Control of the Military: The people control the military to preserve democracy.

This page was last modified on Sunday, January 25, 2004

Aramike · 07-04-09, 12:00 PM

This is kind of why I don't call myself a conservative even though the majority of my views ARE conservative. I believe in families, accountability, limited government, etc. But I'm also an agnostic and a staunch believer in science. I believe that the abortion debate is filled with people on both sides who are full of it (pro-life and pro-choice are completely misleading descriptors).

I could go on but my point is that in general it should be fairly difficult to fit everyone neatly into one of two broad political views.

But I will make a generalization: conservatives tend to buy more completely into the entire package, while liberalism is saddled with more of the single-issue crowd, and is more likely to have divergent views within the group. For example, PETA is clearly a liberal organization as is the Meatpacking Union. Or how about Greenpeace and the UAW? Or how about the gay/lesbian community and the African-American demographic, which is decidely anti-gay?

The American Democratic Party consists of very strange bedfellows. This is why I sometimes muse that the Republican Party is about principles (although I don't agree with all of them) and the Democratic Party is about not having principles.

Buddahaid · 07-04-09, 01:04 PM

I see the first thing to clear up is does conservative mean Republican, and liberal mean Democrat. I don't think so, but you almost always here the two pairs together, as conservative Republicans this, and liberal Democrats that. I feel that serves no purpose but to polarize the public into party lines regardless of the issue at hand.

Interesting. You're saying, in general, that if one felt strongly enough that homosexuality was a sin, they would more likely buy the whole package and be a Republican. Even if, as was brought out last week, a Republican county in CA uses nearly twice the per capita state funds than more Democratic counties. These people seem to be liberal Republicans, but hold those principals.

Buddahaid

Platapus · 07-04-09, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

I see the first thing to clear up is does conservative mean Republican, and liberal mean Democrat. I don't think so, but you almost always here the two pairs together, as conservative Republicans this, and liberal Democrats that.

I think you are correct here. People of both/either political party can be Conservative, Moderate, or Liberal.

I also believe that those three terms can not be absolute but are alway relative.

A person can't be "a conservative", but they can be more conservative than "someone else".

But then people have the right to call themselves what ever makes them feel comfortable.

What I hate is when people try to nullify someone's opinion by labeling them.

"Oh well he is just a Conservative, that's why he thinks like that"
or

"What else can you expect from a Liberal"

Instead of truly trying to understand their opinion.

Anytime we apply labels we are hindering communication and understanding between people of different opinions.

Aramike · 07-04-09, 01:49 PM

Quote:

What I hate is when people try to nullify someone's opinion by labeling them.

"Oh well he is just a Conservative, that's why he thinks like that"
or

"What else can you expect from a Liberal"

Instead of truly trying to understand their opinion.

Anytime we apply labels we are hindering communication and understanding between people of different opinions.

I agree with this. If one has sound reasoning than such ad hominem statements are unnecessary.

Aramike · 07-04-09, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Interesting. You're saying, in general, that if one felt strongly enough that homosexuality was a sin, they would more likely buy the whole package and be a Republican. Even if, as was brought out last week, a Republican county in CA uses nearly twice the per capita state funds than more Democratic counties. These people seem to be liberal Republicans, but hold those principals.

Actually, I'm saying the opposite; that the single issue voter more often emerges in the Democratic Party.

Skybird · 07-04-09, 03:16 PM

Need to say more?

07-04-09, 03:18 PM

Anyone who responds to the substance of this post is feeding the monster.

Buddahaid · 07-04-09, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Anyone who responds to the substance of this post is feeding the monster.

How so? The monster is without substance when brought out into the light of reason.

Buddahaid

Buddahaid · 07-04-09, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramike

Actually, I'm saying the opposite; that the single issue voter more often emerges in the Democratic Party.

I'll have to give that one some thought as it seems I usually see it otherwise. Maybe we all have our political beer goggles on.

Buddahaid

07-04-09, 04:02 PM

Aramike · 07-04-09, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

I'll have to give that one some thought as it seems I usually see it otherwise. Maybe we all have our political beer goggles on.

Buddahaid

That's why I consider myself an independent - to avoid the political beer goggles.

The reasoning for my finding the democrats to be more of a divergent group is that the party represents such a diversity of interests, but many of which are at odds with other interests the party represents.

Conservatism doesn't have that same divergence.

By the way, I don't think there is anything wrong with that - I just think it is what it is.

Buddahaid · 07-04-09, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CastleBravo

Do you have a point to make? Is this gay bashing? For the record I'm not and never will be if that matters to you. Seems I found a one topic Republican voter already.

And your words seem prophetic now as the only one feeding the monster seems to be you. If you can't argue a position with words, then leave it to others, or correct my misunderstanding this picture post.

Buddahaid

07-04-09, 04:41 PM

It has nothing to do with being gay. It has everything to do with being silly. That is why this topic is so toxic. You started with a benign number of topics, and proceeded to entered a number of liberal/progressive talking points.

Buddahaid · 07-04-09, 05:02 PM

OK

. Then please bring up conservative non-progressive talking points. If the topic is silly why is so much energy wasted, by so many people, arguing about it in political races, media outlets, rallies, churches, etc. I'm hoping to show people share more ground than not by asking for viewpoints from both camps. Or, do you feel it's silly to try as people would rather fight over differences anyway. Just seems a lot of topics get derailed over just these types of issues and maybe they could be argued here instead.

Buddahaid

Edited after rereading the previous post.

07-04-09, 10:17 AM	#1
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 9,319 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	Values: Conservative vs. Liberal Let's find out what our viewers define as conservative values and liberal values. I'm betting there's not as wide of a gap as some of us think. But first, we must define what the values are. Can it be boiled down to a few categories? Or is the devil in the details? Religious? Family? Country? Personal? Life? EDIT: Here's the text and a link to where it's from for some points. http://www.classroomhelp.com/lessons...efinition.html Return to the Core Democratic Home Page. Core Democratic Values This section is divided into two parts the Fundamental Beliefs (Often referred to as the Core Democratic Values of Elementary Students.) and the Constitutional Principals. Fundamental Beliefs Life: A person's right to life can't be violated except if your life or the lives of others is threatened. Liberty: This includes personal freedom, political freedom, and economic freedom. This is the freedom for people to gather in groups. They have their own beliefs, ideas and opinions. People also have the right to express their opinions in public. Personal Freedom - the right to think and act without government control. Political Freedom - the right to participate in political process. Economic Freedom - the right to buy, sell and trade private property and the right to employment without the government interfering. The Pursuit of Happiness: As long as you don't interfere with others you have the right to seek happiness in your own way. Common Good: Working together for the welfare of the community or the benefit of all. Justice: All people should be treated fairly in both the benefits and the obligations of society. No individual or group should be favored over another person or group. Equality: Everyone has the right to Political, Legal, Social and Economic Equality. Everyone has the right to the same treatment regardless of race, sex, religion, heritage, or economic status. Diversity: The differences in culture, dress, language, heritage and religion are not just tolerated, but celebrated as a strength. Truth: They should expect and demand that the government not lie to them and the government should disclose information to the people. The government and its people should not lie. Popular Sovereignty: The power of the government comes from the people. The people are the ultimate authority over the government. Patriotism: The people or citizens show a love and devotion for their country and the values. They can show this by words or by actions. Constitutional Principles Rule of Law: Both the people and the government must obey all laws. Separation of Powers: The executive, legislative and judicial branches of the government should be separate institutions so no one branch has all of the power. Representative Government: People have the right to elect others to represent them in the government. Checks and Balances: The powers of the three branches of government, executive, legislative and judicial, should be balanced. No one branch should be dominate. Each branch should have powers to check the actions of the other branches. Individual Rights: Each individual has the fundamental right to life, liberty, economic freedom and the pursuit of happiness. These rights are outlined in the Bill of Rights and the government should protect these rights and not place undo restrictions upon them. Freedom of Religion: The right to practice any or no religion without persecution by the government. Federalism: The states and the federal government share power as outlined by the Constitution. Civilian Control of the Military: The people control the military to preserve democracy. This page was last modified on Sunday, January 25, 2004 Last edited by Buddahaid; 07-04-09 at 11:50 AM.

07-04-09, 03:16 PM	#7
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Need to say more? __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

07-04-09, 12:00 PM	#2
Aramike Ocean Warrior Best of SUBSIM Chairman Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 3,207 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	This is kind of why I don't call myself a conservative even though the majority of my views ARE conservative. I believe in families, accountability, limited government, etc. But I'm also an agnostic and a staunch believer in science. I believe that the abortion debate is filled with people on both sides who are full of it (pro-life and pro-choice are completely misleading descriptors). I could go on but my point is that in general it should be fairly difficult to fit everyone neatly into one of two broad political views. But I will make a generalization: conservatives tend to buy more completely into the entire package, while liberalism is saddled with more of the single-issue crowd, and is more likely to have divergent views within the group. For example, PETA is clearly a liberal organization as is the Meatpacking Union. Or how about Greenpeace and the UAW? Or how about the gay/lesbian community and the African-American demographic, which is decidely anti-gay? The American Democratic Party consists of very strange bedfellows. This is why I sometimes muse that the Republican Party is about principles (although I don't agree with all of them) and the Democratic Party is about not having principles.

07-04-09, 01:04 PM	#3
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 9,319 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	I see the first thing to clear up is does conservative mean Republican, and liberal mean Democrat. I don't think so, but you almost always here the two pairs together, as conservative Republicans this, and liberal Democrats that. I feel that serves no purpose but to polarize the public into party lines regardless of the issue at hand. Interesting. You're saying, in general, that if one felt strongly enough that homosexuality was a sin, they would more likely buy the whole package and be a Republican. Even if, as was brought out last week, a Republican county in CA uses nearly twice the per capita state funds than more Democratic counties. These people seem to be liberal Republicans, but hold those principals. Buddahaid

07-04-09, 03:18 PM	#8
CastleBravo Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Anyone who responds to the substance of this post is feeding the monster.

07-04-09, 04:02 PM	#11
CastleBravo Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:

07-04-09, 04:41 PM	#14
CastleBravo Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	It has nothing to do with being gay. It has everything to do with being silly. That is why this topic is so toxic. You started with a benign number of topics, and proceeded to entered a number of liberal/progressive talking points.

07-04-09, 05:02 PM	#15
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 9,319 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	OK . Then please bring up conservative non-progressive talking points. If the topic is silly why is so much energy wasted, by so many people, arguing about it in political races, media outlets, rallies, churches, etc. I'm hoping to show people share more ground than not by asking for viewpoints from both camps. Or, do you feel it's silly to try as people would rather fight over differences anyway. Just seems a lot of topics get derailed over just these types of issues and maybe they could be argued here instead. Buddahaid Edited after rereading the previous post.