Neal, they knock on your door yet?

[SteamWake]

Federal agents hunt for guns, one house at a time

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6505651.html

[GoldenRivet]

I'm somewhat on the fence about this issue.

1. i agree with the fact that illegal gun trafficking needs to be looked into.

BUT...

2. I feel strongly about this door to door business... it stinks... and they shout have to have a warrant to do this sort of investigating.

im left with the question:

why not target the illegal immigration issue? are they not just treating a symptom here?

[Max2147]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

why not target the illegal immigration issue? are they not just treating a symptom here?

Because you don't have to be an illegal immigrant to be a gun smuggler. That article shows an example of a police officer giving a VERY suspicious story to the ATF agents. I doubt the Houston police department hires illegals to be officers.

[GoldenRivet]

well... i consider illegal immigration to be a bigger issue than some random firearm turning up in mexico.

who gives a sh*t about that?

im worried about the illegal who comes to this nation and goes on a spree of raping 13 year old girls and murdering them

thats a problem IMHO

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6505651.html

Nah, and I doubt they would. I'm a sane gun-owner, I don't buy them in bulk and I don't have an arsenal in my home. Just a .357 Mag and a .40 cal Ruger semi-auto pistol.

I totally understand they govt. has a responsibilty to investigate criminal use and misues of firearms, and I support it.

For years the NRA has been screaming Wolf! that the govt. is going to take our guns. But there are criminals who take advantage of the Second Amendment and that cannot be allowed.

Mexican officials in 2008 asked federal agents to trace the origins of more than 7,500 firearms recovered at crime scenes in Mexico. Most of them were traced back to Texas, California and Arizona.

Another tip took agents on a 30-minute drive from the shack to a sprawling home with a pool in the back and an American flag out front.
It turned out two handguns, of a type drug gangsters prefer, were bought by a pastor for target practice.
Some stories, they say, are hard to believe.
The lamest so far came from a police officer: He said he bought a few military-style rifles, left them in his car and — on the same night — forgot to lock a door. He couldn’t explain why he didn’t file a police report or why he visited Mexico the day after the alleged theft.

Man, that's pretty sad.

.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

im left with the question:

why not target the illegal immigration issue? are they not just treating a symptom here?

100% agree, if they can track down suspicious weapons, why can't they round us the thousands of illegals on every street corner?

[SUBMAN1]

Mexican officials in 2008 asked federal agents to trace the origins of more than 7,500 firearms recovered at crime scenes in Mexico. Most of them were traced back to Texas, California and Arizona.

Bullcrap. It has already been proven that only 8% to 12% of the illegal guns in Mexico originated in the United States. The Mexican Government separates the ones it thinks came from the US and then allows us to look at them, and granted, most came from the US that they choose to show us. The rest (90%) are all fully automatic, and last time I checked, you can't buy RPG-7's in your local LA Hood! Their gun problem is coming from South America and Middle America, not from the US as Hitlery would have you believe.

The point is, this is a move to inventory your guns. Period.

-S

More on the subject:

PS. I chuckle when I see the terms hi-powered and hi-caliber associated with AR-15 and AK-47's. Do they realize that the AR is barely bigger than a .22? Crud! it could probably be shot through a .22 barrel! Or that AK-47 - smaller than a 9mm at 7.62mm. Crazy. Its like they are talking about a .50 cal Barrett or something. At least they could associate maybe a 30.06 with high powered and maybe both terms apply to the 50 cal Barrett, but they definetly don't apply to a AK-47 or AR-15! Its just in there to spice up things to make their report go "Oh my gosh! The world is falling in!"

GAO Reports On Arms Trafficking In Mexico

Friday, June 19, 2009

The U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) released a report this week entitled, "Firearms Trafficking: U.S. Efforts to Combat Arms Trafficking to Mexico Face Planning and Coordination Challenges."

Among other things, the report asserts that Mexican officials consider illicit firearms the number one crime problem affecting their country's security; that about 87 percent of firearms seized in Mexico and traced by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE) in the last five years originated in the United States; and that these firearms are increasingly more powerful and lethal, including "high-caliber and high-powered" AK-47 and AR-15 type semi-automatic rifles. The report further contends that the country's law enforcement agencies are insufficiently organized, and that Mexico has a history of corruption at the federal, state and local levels.

With regard to the "87 percent" statistic, the report's figures make clear that BATFE only traces a fraction of the guns seized. Those firearms are not selected randomly, but are likely selected because they are the guns most likely to have come from the U.S. Trace data reveals nothing about the large number of guns that are not traced.

The report also states "According to U.S. and Mexican government officials, these firearms have been increasingly more powerful and lethal in recent years. For example, many of these firearms are high-caliber and high-powered, such as AK and AR-15 type semiautomatic rifles." The report, however, states that about 25 percent of firearms traced were of that type, which works out to only eight percent of all firearms seized. Also, the report does not indicate what percentage of murders is committed with various types of firearms, but it does note, "The majority of the casualties have been individuals involved in the drug trade in some way."

The report further states that, "The U.S. government faces several significant challenges in combating illicit sales of firearms in the United States and stemming their flow into Mexico." These include "restrictions on collecting and reporting information on firearms purchases, a lack of required background checks for private firearms sales, and limitations on reporting requirements for multiple sales" and even the fact that the U.S. government is prohibited by law from maintaining a national registry of firearms.

But as we know, the gun control measures indicated would not be effective against purchasers who can pass instant background checks. As the report noted, "Firearms [purchases] at gun shops and pawn shops for trafficking to Mexico are usually made by 'straw purchasers,' according to law enforcement officials.

These straw purchasers are individuals with clean records who can be expected to pass the required background check and who are paid by drug cartel representatives or middlemen to purchase certain guns from gun shops."

Finally, the report noted that, "Another significant challenge facing U.S. efforts to assist Mexico is corruption among some Mexican government entities. Government officials acknowledge fully implementing these reforms will take considerable time, and may take years to affect comprehensive change." And, "According to Mexican government officials, corruption pervades all levels of Mexican law enforcement -- federal, state, and local. For example, some high ranking members of federal law enforcement have been implicated in corruption investigations, and some high publicity kidnapping and murder cases have involved corrupt federal law enforcement officials."

Obviously, Mexico has a huge problem with rampant corruption that clearly cannot be blamed on the U.S. At the same time, Mexico has extremely prohibitive gun laws, yet has far worse crime than the U.S.

More evidence of what is truly happening in Mexico was brought out in a series of hearings held earlier this year. During those hearings, three representatives of U.S. law enforcement, one each from BATFE, the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA), and Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), made it clear that the increase in violence in Mexico is being misinterpreted by the media and politicians. They testified that the increase in violence is a direct result of the actions taken by Mexican President Felipe Calderon to take on the cartels. The cartels, they testified, are being pressured more than ever before and are fighting back in desperation, resulting in casualties. (If you wish to view the hearings, please use the following links: House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on Western Hemisphere: "Guns, Drugs and Violence: The Merida Initiative and the Challenge in Mexico" , and Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime and Drugs: "Law Enforcement Responses to Mexican Drug Cartels")

For American gun owners, the battle will be to make sure that politicians who see an opportunity to advance their gun ban agenda do not use Mexico as an excuse to sacrifice our Second Amendment rights.

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=4991

[Onkel Neal]

Mexican officials in 2008 asked federal agents to trace the origins of more than 7,500 firearms recovered at crime scenes in Mexico. Most of them were traced back to Texas, California and Arizona.

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Bullcrap. It has already been proven that only 8% to 12% of the illegal guns in Mexico originated in the United States. The Mexican Government separates the ones it thinks came from the US and then allows us to look at them, and granted, most came from the US that they choose to show us. The rest (90%) are all fully automatic, and last time I checked, you can't buy RPG-7's in your local LA Hood! Their gun problem is coming from South America and Middle America, not from the US as Hitlery would have you believe.

The point is, this is a move to inventory your guns. Period.

What has been proven? You say "8% to 12% of the illegal guns in Mexico originated in the United States"; how do I know that's correct? Even if it was, that's enough to warrant cracking down on. I don't get my facts from the NRA. And I don't buy the "move to inventory my guns", the gun nuts have been using that scare tactic as long as I remember. It's the lifeblood of the NRA's source of revenue, and I refuse to be stampeded into paranoia.

[geetrue]

How do you start a poll to see what posters think?

I love my country, but honestly what do they do right?

Perhaps the military Army, Navy, Airforce and the Coast Guard are about the only departments that are doing an above average rating.

Here's a short list of departments hindered or just plain ignorant on how to do their job to the full satisfaction of the tax paying citzens of this coiuntry deserve.

You can see that some of these departments are failling miserably, but due to what?

The problem has to be somewhere in the law or in the budget or even in the job protection racket we all know about personally or instictively. lol

Please add to it as I am getting too old to remember everything. Here's what I would sound like if I still made patrols.

"Conn/ sonar I hold a contact bearing, "Oh never mind"


All of the below are having problems ... I rate them below acceptable, except the yellow ones, they are acceptable


US Army

US Navy

US Air Force

US Coast Guard

U.S. Army Corps of Engineers

DOD Department of denfence

DOT Department of transportation

DOJ Department of justice

HLD Homeland defence

FBI Federsl department of justice

CIA Centeral Intelligence agency

DEA Drug enforcement agency

ATF Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives