Evasion Help

Studders86 · 03-05-09, 05:18 PM

Im sure this has been discussed many a time but i cant seem to find a thread that has all my answers. Hope you dont mind me asking something you will of heard loads.

Im running SH3 with the GWX mod and loving it, thanks for this to whoever had any part in making it.

I was never that good at evading destroyers or any other type of sub hunter for that matter before the mod but i dont want it to put me off playing but is there any tactics that will help me get away. I try and get in the destroyers blind spot but then they seem to ping me and find me again. how do i stop them from pinging me? lol

Also, what are the possible tactics to evade if 2 boats are after you?

Thanks in advance guys

Captain Birdseye · 03-05-09, 05:30 PM

What depth to you dive to? I find pushing the sub to its limits (200 metres, around there) and changing course with silent speed, flank speed when explosions occur works.

Sailor Steve · 03-05-09, 05:31 PM

Run silent, run deep.

I usually start at about 70 meters, stop reloading and go silent. Just because they're pinging doesn't mean they've found you - ignore that guy who keeps panicking and telling you they're onto you. When he's getting close you'll hear his propellors. When he begins his attack run you'll hear them speed up. That's when you go to flank speed, full rudder and dive - at least 20 meters, more if you have the room. Unlike real life you only have a minute or so of turbulence before he can hear you again, so once the depth charges have stopped exploding go slow again.

The real problem is when there are two or more. One might sit still and listen, and when the other begins his attack run and you speed up he'll hear you, and begin his. The only thing you can do then is turn and dive some more, and hope for the best.

Later in the war you'll run into Hunter-Killer groups of several, and they're the most dangerous. And then there's the hedgehogs: you'll never hear them coming.

But mostly, stay in deep water, and run silent, and run deep.

Studders86 · 03-05-09, 05:48 PM

Thanx for the quick response. Will give it a go

Oneshot/Onekill · 03-05-09, 05:53 PM

Very sound advice!

i'll just add that, there is a pretty good illistration of evading ASW in the appendix of the new GWX 3.0 manual. The biggest error that new GWX user's make is they don't get deep enough.

Make sure you know ahead of time what your U-boat type's crush depth is and go to a depth around that, maybe 10-20 meters shy. early war ASDIC did not angle down enough to detect you at greater depths!

Hope this helps.

Studders86 · 03-05-09, 06:55 PM

Still trying. Cant get away from this destroyer on my save game. I surfaced and managed to sink him the as im tryin to escape another one followed so i went right to the bottom and his depth charge hit me and i couldnt surface. Was on silent running and still cant manage it lol

Otto Heinzmeir · 03-05-09, 07:25 PM

I have gotten good at avoiding DC runs. I usually find myself in water that is 80m deep at the most. I have never been able to slip away with silent running. I mean never, I'm not lying. Occasionally there will be a 4 or 5 minute break where he quits pinging and then magically he finds me again. I stay at 100 rpms engine speed during this time (2 knots tops at silent running) So I have gotten a bit pesimistic about "Happy Times" I think the early DD's sonar detection rate is too high.

I play 100% realism and don't use that stealth indicator. I have read that your suppose to keep your sonar profile low by turning towards the escort. The trouble is when your in SR mode at 2 knots you can't turn fast enough as the DD circles so he will always get a good aspect on you at some point.

When I have been hunted there have been 2 outcomes. Either I dodge the escort until he uses up his DC's or I sink him. Since I have gotten tired of 2 and 1/2 hour DC attacks, I tend to go for the sink the escort option sooner than later. If I am hunting a convoy I prefer to not use fish on escorts and let him use up his DC's and then I can reattack the convoy after recharging my batteries.

Since I am never in water deeper than 80m, I am too shallow to get under a thermal layer. Getting under a thermal layer seems the only way to sneek away. Weather or not this is realistic, I'm not sure.

You may say will don't attack in shallow water. The thing is, in a typeIIA your range is limited to AN grids and possible the eastern most AM grids. All the shipping lanes available here are shallow. Typically 80 meters or less.

Personally I think this is why you see a fair number of posts, where players will use torpedoes to take out all 4 escorts and then use their guns on the merchants. Not a real life scenario, if it is, it would be quite rare. I read that the AI will not ping you unless you are already in his sonar cone. In other words if he is in the wrong direction or location he won't ping but if your in his sonar cone then he auto pings. I don't know how this could be verified. You could probably see if this is true by using an external camera which I don't use during conflicts.

Captain Birdseye · 03-05-09, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Studders86

Still trying. Cant get away from this destroyer on my save game. I surfaced and managed to sink him the as im tryin to escape another one followed so i went right to the bottom and his depth charge hit me and i couldnt surface. Was on silent running and still cant manage it lol

If you don't use the stealth meter may I suggest you try it out til you develop a plan of action?

Otto's post is very good. Only a few days ago I was in the same situation and it was a relatively easy situation to overcome. I find depth my friend, it just depends on how lucky you're feeling

TheDudTorpedo · 03-05-09, 07:48 PM

Hi Studder - 90% of what you require has been posted here already viz. depth & stealth. Contact posted another related useful tip (if you have decoys) in another thread a few days ago, which I have copied and pasted below:

"strategic use of decoys...
What i have done in the past is launch decoys in the following manner.
While diving after the initial attack start a 270 degree turn, release a decoy every 45 degrees of heading change
lets assume you start at 000 degrees
here is the procedure
order a depth of 220 meters
start a right turn
rig for silent running
at heading 045 - launch decoy
at heading 090 - launch decoy
at heading 135 - launch decoy
at heading 180 - launch decoy
at heading 225 - launch decoy
at heading 270 - launch decoy - stop turn - continue dive to about 220 meters
this will create a descending spiral of decoys... the destroyers will be receiving seven echo returns when they ping...
6 decoys and 1 u-boat. this forces them to decide which return is the actual u-boat and then attack it...
they have a 1 in 7 chance of selecting the right target... hopefully the selected a decoy instead of your boat.
sneak away at 220 meters depth making gentle 15 degree turns left and right.
never increasing speed never surfacing or never securing from silent running until you are sure you have escaped.
the problem with this strategy is you use up pretty much all of your decoys in the process, but you can refit at a supply ship."

Studders86 · 03-05-09, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Birdseye

Quote:

Originally Posted by Studders86

Still trying. Cant get away from this destroyer on my save game. I surfaced and managed to sink him the as im tryin to escape another one followed so i went right to the bottom and his depth charge hit me and i couldnt surface. Was on silent running and still cant manage it lol

If you don't use the stealth meter may I suggest you try it out til you develop a plan of action?

Otto's post is very good. Only a few days ago I was in the same situation and it was a relatively easy situation to overcome. I find depth my friend, it just depends on how lucky you're feeling

I use the stealth meter. I find myself in green and then i hear the ping and it goes red even when my engines werent running. Then i started to think i got away and 2 depth charges either side of my con tower. Cant figure out where iam going wrong. I think i have two destroyers after me...

Edit: Thanx for the info dudtorpedo, unfortunatly i dont have any decoys installed lol

TheDudTorpedo · 03-05-09, 07:54 PM

Mmm...I don't think you are doing anything wrong Studders. Take a look at what I went through not so long ago http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=148819 In the end my solution was the same as yours, surface/periscope depth and torpedo

mx · 03-05-09, 08:13 PM

BE MORE AGRESSIVE!

Studders86 · 03-05-09, 09:02 PM

FINALLY!! Ive just managed to escape them and when i was near brest another one was onto me and i managed to evade that. Think im getting the hang of it. Gonna start a new career me thinks. Startin a new game in 1942 when im such a n00b is probly a bad idea. i just liked the big sub and launch base

Captain Birdseye · 03-05-09, 09:07 PM

Congratulations

Studders86 · 03-05-09, 09:41 PM

Thanx

03-05-09, 05:18 PM	#1
Studders86 Watch Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 18 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Evasion Help Im sure this has been discussed many a time but i cant seem to find a thread that has all my answers. Hope you dont mind me asking something you will of heard loads. Im running SH3 with the GWX mod and loving it, thanks for this to whoever had any part in making it. I was never that good at evading destroyers or any other type of sub hunter for that matter before the mod but i dont want it to put me off playing but is there any tactics that will help me get away. I try and get in the destroyers blind spot but then they seem to ping me and find me again. how do i stop them from pinging me? lol Also, what are the possible tactics to evade if 2 boats are after you? Thanks in advance guys

03-05-09, 05:31 PM	#3
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Run silent, run deep. I usually start at about 70 meters, stop reloading and go silent. Just because they're pinging doesn't mean they've found you - ignore that guy who keeps panicking and telling you they're onto you. When he's getting close you'll hear his propellors. When he begins his attack run you'll hear them speed up. That's when you go to flank speed, full rudder and dive - at least 20 meters, more if you have the room. Unlike real life you only have a minute or so of turbulence before he can hear you again, so once the depth charges have stopped exploding go slow again. The real problem is when there are two or more. One might sit still and listen, and when the other begins his attack run and you speed up he'll hear you, and begin his. The only thing you can do then is turn and dive some more, and hope for the best. Later in the war you'll run into Hunter-Killer groups of several, and they're the most dangerous. And then there's the hedgehogs: you'll never hear them coming. But mostly, stay in deep water, and run silent, and run deep. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-05-09, 07:25 PM	#7
Otto Heinzmeir Weps Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Wilhelmshaven Local Pub Posts: 361 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I have gotten good at avoiding DC runs. I usually find myself in water that is 80m deep at the most. I have never been able to slip away with silent running. I mean never, I'm not lying. Occasionally there will be a 4 or 5 minute break where he quits pinging and then magically he finds me again. I stay at 100 rpms engine speed during this time (2 knots tops at silent running) So I have gotten a bit pesimistic about "Happy Times" I think the early DD's sonar detection rate is too high. I play 100% realism and don't use that stealth indicator. I have read that your suppose to keep your sonar profile low by turning towards the escort. The trouble is when your in SR mode at 2 knots you can't turn fast enough as the DD circles so he will always get a good aspect on you at some point. When I have been hunted there have been 2 outcomes. Either I dodge the escort until he uses up his DC's or I sink him. Since I have gotten tired of 2 and 1/2 hour DC attacks, I tend to go for the sink the escort option sooner than later. If I am hunting a convoy I prefer to not use fish on escorts and let him use up his DC's and then I can reattack the convoy after recharging my batteries. Since I am never in water deeper than 80m, I am too shallow to get under a thermal layer. Getting under a thermal layer seems the only way to sneek away. Weather or not this is realistic, I'm not sure. You may say will don't attack in shallow water. The thing is, in a typeIIA your range is limited to AN grids and possible the eastern most AM grids. All the shipping lanes available here are shallow. Typically 80 meters or less. Personally I think this is why you see a fair number of posts, where players will use torpedoes to take out all 4 escorts and then use their guns on the merchants. Not a real life scenario, if it is, it would be quite rare. I read that the AI will not ping you unless you are already in his sonar cone. In other words if he is in the wrong direction or location he won't ping but if your in his sonar cone then he auto pings. I don't know how this could be verified. You could probably see if this is true by using an external camera which I don't use during conflicts. Last edited by Otto Heinzmeir; 03-05-09 at 07:42 PM.

03-05-09, 08:13 PM	#12
mx Seaman Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 32 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	BE MORE AGRESSIVE! __________________ GWX3.0 + Thomsen's sound pack 3.2 + Water Stream mod

03-05-09, 05:30 PM	#2
Captain Birdseye Watch Officer Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sat behind my desk at BdU tapping away on my Enigma machine. Posts: 339 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	What depth to you dive to? I find pushing the sub to its limits (200 metres, around there) and changing course with silent speed, flank speed when explosions occur works.

03-05-09, 05:48 PM	#4
Studders86 Watch Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 18 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Thanx for the quick response. Will give it a go

03-05-09, 05:53 PM	#5
Oneshot/Onekill Captain Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Drinking a cold one in Davey Jone's locker. Posts: 487 Downloads: 26 Uploads: 0	Very sound advice! i'll just add that, there is a pretty good illistration of evading ASW in the appendix of the new GWX 3.0 manual. The biggest error that new GWX user's make is they don't get deep enough. Make sure you know ahead of time what your U-boat type's crush depth is and go to a depth around that, maybe 10-20 meters shy. early war ASDIC did not angle down enough to detect you at greater depths! Hope this helps.

03-05-09, 06:55 PM	#6
Studders86 Watch Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 18 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Still trying. Cant get away from this destroyer on my save game. I surfaced and managed to sink him the as im tryin to escape another one followed so i went right to the bottom and his depth charge hit me and i couldnt surface. Was on silent running and still cant manage it lol

03-05-09, 07:48 PM	#9
TheDudTorpedo Machinist's Mate Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 128 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	Hi Studder - 90% of what you require has been posted here already viz. depth & stealth. Contact posted another related useful tip (if you have decoys) in another thread a few days ago, which I have copied and pasted below: "strategic use of decoys... What i have done in the past is launch decoys in the following manner. While diving after the initial attack start a 270 degree turn, release a decoy every 45 degrees of heading change lets assume you start at 000 degrees here is the procedure order a depth of 220 meters start a right turn rig for silent running at heading 045 - launch decoy at heading 090 - launch decoy at heading 135 - launch decoy at heading 180 - launch decoy at heading 225 - launch decoy at heading 270 - launch decoy - stop turn - continue dive to about 220 meters this will create a descending spiral of decoys... the destroyers will be receiving seven echo returns when they ping... 6 decoys and 1 u-boat. this forces them to decide which return is the actual u-boat and then attack it... they have a 1 in 7 chance of selecting the right target... hopefully the selected a decoy instead of your boat. sneak away at 220 meters depth making gentle 15 degree turns left and right. never increasing speed never surfacing or never securing from silent running until you are sure you have escaped. the problem with this strategy is you use up pretty much all of your decoys in the process, but you can refit at a supply ship."

03-05-09, 07:54 PM	#11
TheDudTorpedo Machinist's Mate Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 128 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	Mmm...I don't think you are doing anything wrong Studders. Take a look at what I went through not so long ago http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=148819 In the end my solution was the same as yours, surface/periscope depth and torpedo

03-05-09, 09:02 PM	#13
Studders86 Watch Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 18 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	FINALLY!! Ive just managed to escape them and when i was near brest another one was onto me and i managed to evade that. Think im getting the hang of it. Gonna start a new career me thinks. Startin a new game in 1942 when im such a n00b is probly a bad idea. i just liked the big sub and launch base

03-05-09, 09:07 PM	#14
Captain Birdseye Watch Officer Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sat behind my desk at BdU tapping away on my Enigma machine. Posts: 339 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	Congratulations

03-05-09, 09:41 PM	#15
Studders86 Watch Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 18 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Thanx