the long shot

Keelbuster · 01-19-09, 07:48 PM

It's awesome what you can do with great target data. More and more I've been going for the 'long-shot' - like shots that run over 4km or so. If you have good data, like for instance, if you got the exact speed of the convoy/ship from a radio report, and if you have the ship's course more or less bang on, it's wild how accurate the long shot can be.

Case in point - i tried overtake a convoy in 8km visibility weather, nighttime. I had basically perfect course data from a prior attack, yet I miscalculated in how long it would take to pass the convoy, and rather than ending up in front of the convoy, I came in on an oblique angle so that the first row of merchants was about 45 degrees to me, and about 5km away. It was too late to abort because I was afraid of being spotted, so I dove to PD, and started to work my way in at 2kts silent. By the time the first row of ships was just getting towards 90 aOb, they were about 3.5km away (by a stadimeter reading). I could see the faint silhouette of a Large Cargo way in the distance - 4 convoy lanes away. I made a rough guess - convoy lanes are about 1km apart, so 3.5 + 4x1 = 7.5 km. I dialed it into the TDC, set two T1 eels for slow, and fired them on either side of the large cargo center line. Runtime was over 7 minutes. Both hit, slightly aft of where I had aimed, but it was a fatal blow - the Large Cargo disintegrated. The beauty of the long shot is that you are so far away from the dirt when it happens, that the escape is much easier. This is vital in late war, and the T1 FaTs really improve the odds of a hit.

Anyway, just had to express my massive enthusiasm for the long-shot. I'm used to the 'whites-of-their-eyes' kind of engagement, and this long-shot business is really starting to sell me as the best attack given solid target motion data.

Nemisis · 01-20-09, 02:58 PM

Congrats on getting those long Shots in on target.

My main concern about what you mentioned in your post is that Convoys have a bad tendancy to change course/Speed randomly without warning especially as you mentioned you had already attacked them, plus i would not hold any Values about speed and course sent to you from BDU as Gospel.

As i have found out in my workplace trust nothing about what anyone tells you, find out the information you need first hand by yourself then you know you got the right data.

Especially if you are running GWX3 as the convoys twist and turn about like twisty turny things. Lost a couple of convoys trying to jump ahead of them because of this,

Good Hunting!

nikbear · 01-20-09, 03:02 PM

Wholeheartedly agree with you,nothing gives as much satisfaction as pulling off a long shot,thats why I'm so loathe to give up my G7a's cause of they're great range on the slow setting

Keelbuster · 01-20-09, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemisis

Congrats on getting those long Shots in on target.

My main concern about what you mentioned in your post is that Convoys have a bad tendancy to change course/Speed randomly without warning especially as you mentioned you had already attacked them, plus i would not hold any Values about speed and course sent to you from BDU as Gospel.

As i have found out in my workplace trust nothing about what anyone tells you, find out the information you need first hand by yourself then you know you got the right data.

Especially if you are running GWX3 as the convoys twist and turn about like twisty turny things. Lost a couple of convoys trying to jump ahead of them because of this,

Good Hunting!

Yea - I love the way convoys evade in GWX. It's great. I usually do a sanity check to make sure my assumptions are correct - this usually involves a couple of 3.15 minute mappings, or else using the notepad speed estimation function. Still the long shot is worthless without good data. And, I find that my accuracy drops off dramatically as the shot moves off 90 AoB, which makes sense I guess. Right now I'm in Sep '40, so I've got a long way to go before FaTs. Really looking forward to that though. I remember attacks in 43 and 44 where I would launch 5 T1 FaTs from 5 or 6 Kms away, and have a major headstart on evasion before the fireworks start.

Keelbuster · 01-20-09, 10:09 PM

Ok - this is going to sound ridiculous. It _is_ ridiculous. I just pulled an a serious long shot. I got a contact report about a TF going east in AM34 at 23kts. I happened to be in the vicinity so I plotted an intercept. When I spotted them, I realized that I was way off on my guess of course. I updated this, and had them at about 15km, crossing about 40 degrees on my bow. I ran at them at flank, at the new 90 AoB course solution. When the battleship in their midst (which I never got to identify - maybe a KG or something), was crossing 20 degrees, I estimated he was about 12 km away. The TDC only allows 10km shots

So i set her to 10, and aimed a bit in front of the 'battlecruiser'. All slow shots, set to 8m depth, so i wouldn't hit the overlapping escort. I fired all four, blasting out the tubes while i was blazing along at 18kts. Then i dove, and turned away, silent. Run time was insane - i think it was about 10 minutes or more. Anyway, the timer ran out, then about 2 or 3 minutes later, BAM. One of them connected. The rest just ran themselves out, but jesus, it was my first ~12km shot+hit. Anyway, the damage inflicted was not critical, and whatever it was sailed on - I couldn't catch up so he could probably at least pull 18kts. Anyway, it was proof of concept that the ultra-long shot can work.

P.S. Maybe the most satisfying aspect of the attack was the response of the escorts - there were 4 destroyers doing a serious angry search about 2 or 3 km from the damaged battleship. I was laughing my ass off another 7 km away!

Rommer69 · 01-21-09, 07:10 AM

I agree with you, recently I attacked a convoy from 7 km away, and with no good visibility, so I worked up the data with the hydrophones (I use map contact updates). I shot 3 eels to different targets, and I got two hits. Another time I attacked a convoy from 4.5 km, with good visibility, 3 eels again, 1 hit one of the ships I aimed, another one hit a ship in the next row the one I aimed, and the third one missed. Escorts never knew were I was in neither of the attcaks
The trouble is that you need steam torpedoes and in good weather their trails are clearly visible, so ships begin to zig-zag (that was the cause of my second hit to an unintended target in the second attack). Maybe at night will be better.
So long, I have never reached year 41 so in 1940, when I am now, escape is easier than later, as everybody says so maybe it is not worthwhile an attack from such distances in this year but, ¡I am training for the future!

harzfeld · 02-06-09, 04:52 AM

In past, I used to attack escorted convoy during daylight within or up to 1000m submerge to nearest ships using T2, with one torpedoes per ship, until I learned to preferably wait until dark using T1 during surface attack, two torpedoes per ship, from around 6000-10000m away, then I have plenty time and room to flank away on surface before torpedoes hit targets. The escorts tend to sniff in wrong spots, usually 1000-3000m away from convoy which I am way away from. So I am nibbling two ships out of convoy at a time, then intercept the same convoy again to sink another two. That way I won't get detected and better chance to survive. But later war years when radar comes in, I have to intercept convoy in ahead submerge, once I fire torpedoes from 5000-10000m depending on weather, I crash dive away from convoy. It's interesting how much time I have played in GWX, my playing style have changed compare to stock. I am much more comfortable attacking furthest away rather than going into the middle of convoy unless there is nasty storm and water is deep enough.

01-19-09, 07:48 PM	#1
Keelbuster Ace of the Deep Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: BA 72 Posts: 1,092 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	the long shot It's awesome what you can do with great target data. More and more I've been going for the 'long-shot' - like shots that run over 4km or so. If you have good data, like for instance, if you got the exact speed of the convoy/ship from a radio report, and if you have the ship's course more or less bang on, it's wild how accurate the long shot can be. Case in point - i tried overtake a convoy in 8km visibility weather, nighttime. I had basically perfect course data from a prior attack, yet I miscalculated in how long it would take to pass the convoy, and rather than ending up in front of the convoy, I came in on an oblique angle so that the first row of merchants was about 45 degrees to me, and about 5km away. It was too late to abort because I was afraid of being spotted, so I dove to PD, and started to work my way in at 2kts silent. By the time the first row of ships was just getting towards 90 aOb, they were about 3.5km away (by a stadimeter reading). I could see the faint silhouette of a Large Cargo way in the distance - 4 convoy lanes away. I made a rough guess - convoy lanes are about 1km apart, so 3.5 + 4x1 = 7.5 km. I dialed it into the TDC, set two T1 eels for slow, and fired them on either side of the large cargo center line. Runtime was over 7 minutes. Both hit, slightly aft of where I had aimed, but it was a fatal blow - the Large Cargo disintegrated. The beauty of the long shot is that you are so far away from the dirt when it happens, that the escape is much easier. This is vital in late war, and the T1 FaTs really improve the odds of a hit. Anyway, just had to express my massive enthusiasm for the long-shot. I'm used to the 'whites-of-their-eyes' kind of engagement, and this long-shot business is really starting to sell me as the best attack given solid target motion data. __________________

01-20-09, 03:02 PM	#3
nikbear Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Northampton,UK Posts: 1,859 Downloads: 86 Uploads: 0	Wholeheartedly agree with you,nothing gives as much satisfaction as pulling off a long shot,thats why I'm so loathe to give up my G7a's cause of they're great range on the slow setting __________________ 'It is not surely known when the grey wolf shall come upon the seat of the gods' Ericksmal. Last edited by nikbear; 01-20-09 at 03:34 PM.

01-20-09, 10:09 PM	#5
Keelbuster Ace of the Deep Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: BA 72 Posts: 1,092 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Ok - this is going to sound ridiculous. It _is_ ridiculous. I just pulled an a serious long shot. I got a contact report about a TF going east in AM34 at 23kts. I happened to be in the vicinity so I plotted an intercept. When I spotted them, I realized that I was way off on my guess of course. I updated this, and had them at about 15km, crossing about 40 degrees on my bow. I ran at them at flank, at the new 90 AoB course solution. When the battleship in their midst (which I never got to identify - maybe a KG or something), was crossing 20 degrees, I estimated he was about 12 km away. The TDC only allows 10km shots So i set her to 10, and aimed a bit in front of the 'battlecruiser'. All slow shots, set to 8m depth, so i wouldn't hit the overlapping escort. I fired all four, blasting out the tubes while i was blazing along at 18kts. Then i dove, and turned away, silent. Run time was insane - i think it was about 10 minutes or more. Anyway, the timer ran out, then about 2 or 3 minutes later, BAM. One of them connected. The rest just ran themselves out, but jesus, it was my first ~12km shot+hit. Anyway, the damage inflicted was not critical, and whatever it was sailed on - I couldn't catch up so he could probably at least pull 18kts. Anyway, it was proof of concept that the ultra-long shot can work. P.S. Maybe the most satisfying aspect of the attack was the response of the escorts - there were 4 destroyers doing a serious angry search about 2 or 3 km from the damaged battleship. I was laughing my ass off another 7 km away! __________________

01-20-09, 02:58 PM	#2
Nemisis Watch Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Scotland Posts: 24 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Congrats on getting those long Shots in on target. My main concern about what you mentioned in your post is that Convoys have a bad tendancy to change course/Speed randomly without warning especially as you mentioned you had already attacked them, plus i would not hold any Values about speed and course sent to you from BDU as Gospel. As i have found out in my workplace trust nothing about what anyone tells you, find out the information you need first hand by yourself then you know you got the right data. Especially if you are running GWX3 as the convoys twist and turn about like twisty turny things. Lost a couple of convoys trying to jump ahead of them because of this, Good Hunting!

01-21-09, 07:10 AM	#6
Rommer69 A-ganger Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Spain Posts: 72 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I agree with you, recently I attacked a convoy from 7 km away, and with no good visibility, so I worked up the data with the hydrophones (I use map contact updates). I shot 3 eels to different targets, and I got two hits. Another time I attacked a convoy from 4.5 km, with good visibility, 3 eels again, 1 hit one of the ships I aimed, another one hit a ship in the next row the one I aimed, and the third one missed. Escorts never knew were I was in neither of the attcaks The trouble is that you need steam torpedoes and in good weather their trails are clearly visible, so ships begin to zig-zag (that was the cause of my second hit to an unintended target in the second attack). Maybe at night will be better. So long, I have never reached year 41 so in 1940, when I am now, escape is easier than later, as everybody says so maybe it is not worthwhile an attack from such distances in this year but, ¡I am training for the future!

02-06-09, 04:52 AM	#7
harzfeld Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 135 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	In past, I used to attack escorted convoy during daylight within or up to 1000m submerge to nearest ships using T2, with one torpedoes per ship, until I learned to preferably wait until dark using T1 during surface attack, two torpedoes per ship, from around 6000-10000m away, then I have plenty time and room to flank away on surface before torpedoes hit targets. The escorts tend to sniff in wrong spots, usually 1000-3000m away from convoy which I am way away from. So I am nibbling two ships out of convoy at a time, then intercept the same convoy again to sink another two. That way I won't get detected and better chance to survive. But later war years when radar comes in, I have to intercept convoy in ahead submerge, once I fire torpedoes from 5000-10000m depending on weather, I crash dive away from convoy. It's interesting how much time I have played in GWX, my playing style have changed compare to stock. I am much more comfortable attacking furthest away rather than going into the middle of convoy unless there is nasty storm and water is deep enough.