A few random newbish questions

Galaga Galaxian · 02-04-09, 09:01 PM

Hey, been playing SH3 and GWX2.1/3.0 on and off for a couple months now, I've completed maybe two dozen patrols across three or four career, the majority of these in a Type-II in late 39, early 40. Anyways, I have a random assortment of questions.

1) On one of my latest patrols I was horrified to find my attack periscope was completely blurry, like someone had smeared Vaseline all over the lenses. We hadn't taken any kind of damage, nor was any listed on the F7 screen. I assume this is SC3 Commander's malfunctions at work?

2) Does using the ATLAS ECHOLOT to determine your depth under keel tip you off to any ASW that might be listening for you? I assume it does since it gives out a lovely sonar PING! when used.

3) Does playing your gramophone cause noise an ASW can pick up? I turn it off when something with hydrophones is in the area just to be cautious, but I'd like to be sure.

4) Is it normal for coal ships to explode violently after being hit by a torpedo, or did I just get a lucky hit recently? I can see a oil tanker exploding, but while coal is flammable (and so I was certain even one torpedo would doom the target if a fire started) I didn't quite expect the whole deck/superstructure to go BOOM after burning for a few minutes. Then again the whole encounter with the coal ship was unusual. It was parked 50ish km east from the entrance of the Firth of Forth alongside a navigational lightship.

Damn, I was certain I had a few other questions, but that is all I can remember off the top of my head. Oh well. Thanks for the help!

A Very Super Market · 02-04-09, 09:09 PM

Hi and welcome!

Okay, you first question: Perhaps, perhaps. I haven't gotten any malfunctions (yet) myself, but unless you were screwing around with a bunch of different mods, it should be the work of some boozed up factory worker.

2 and 3, I think I read somewhere on the forums that the depth-measuring ping alerted destroyers. But the gramaphone definitely doesn't. You could blast some death metal and it wouldn't make a difference.

4, By coal ship, do you mean those tiny coal tenders? Or the cyclops? Most ships in GWX sink by flooding, so it would be a little unusual to have a non-tanker blow up like that.

Galaga Galaxian · 02-04-09, 09:34 PM

It was a "Coal Freighter", 2800 tones. It was just sitting there next to a red-painted light ship and the notepad labeled it as "replenishment".

I got the "She's going down" alert the second the torpedo hit her and after a couple minutes of floating on fire the upper surfaces exploded fantastically and she went under in seconds (did not break apart though).

A Very Super Market · 02-04-09, 09:41 PM

Probably a critical damage hit, maybe the fuel tank. Ships still sometimes blow up

mookiemookie · 02-04-09, 10:46 PM

1. Yup. Blurry scopes are a sure sign of the SH3 Commander malfunction feature at work. Others include not being able to reach top speed even at ahead flank, and battery life that is noticeably shorter

2 & 3. Sadly, neither one of these alert destroyers to your presence. Test it for yourself in a single mission sometime. You can ping away to your hearts content and the DD's will happily sail along, none the wiser. It feels like cheating to me, so I don't do this in game.

4. The coal tenders next to the lightships are placed there so your watch crew will spot the lightships themselves. A limitation of the SH3 engine prevents stationary ships from staying stationary, and so in order to make lightships stay where they are, they have to be scripted as a unit type that isn't detectable. Anyways, it sounds like you got a lucky crit hit on the coal tender.

Galaga Galaxian · 02-05-09, 12:04 AM

Ah, so the coal ship was just there so the lightship could be spotted? (Although both were completely stationary, and yet you say ships can't stay stationary?)

I'll just assume it was a Royal Navy resupply point or something, even though I question the logic of having a blinking lightship saying "Hey here is a juicy coal ship!". (Or the need of a resupply point a mere 50km from the Scottish coast)

Are lightships even valid targets? I've never seen one fly a flag of any nation, and I can't remember seeing one in the ship recognition book, though they're so obvious I've never bothered to try to look them up.

Good to know about the Echolot and the Gramophone, I'll still probably keep myself from using them just to be "appropriate". Thanks for confirming the periscope too, as well as tips on other malfunctions to watch for. Ironically that same patrol when we left Kiel I specifically raised and lowered the periscopes while still in port to make sure they were working (I also performed a few other tests). Next time I better remember to look through them!

Weiss Pinguin · 02-05-09, 12:10 AM

Lightships are actually environmental objects, and you can't sink or target them. Historically they were generally left alone, as everyone used them for reference and such.

UnderseaLcpl · 02-05-09, 12:15 AM

Actually, coal is quite capable of exploding violently. A torpedo hit could easily throw a lot of coal dust into the air, which might subsequently be ignited by fires aboard the ship. Same principle as the MOAB

Galaga Galaxian · 02-05-09, 01:01 AM

Yeah, I specifically aimed at the rear/center hold full of coal, I figured "well, if I manage to start a fire in the hold, nothing is putting that sucker out, even if she stays afloat she'll be a burned out wreck".

mookiemookie · 02-05-09, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaga Galaxian

Ah, so the coal ship was just there so the lightship could be spotted? (Although both were completely stationary, and yet you say ships can't stay stationary?)

According to the GWX team (since I've never monkeyed about with campaign layers and such) If you scripted the lightship as a "ship", then it would drift with the seas. If you script it as an environmental object, it stays where its at, except your watch crew won't alert you to its presence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weiß Pinguin

Lightships are actually environmental objects, and you can't sink or target them. Historically they were generally left alone, as everyone used them for reference and such.

They're only worth 25 renown in GWX3. Not worth a torpedo. Heck, not even worth the deck gun shells.

bigboywooly · 02-05-09, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaga Galaxian

Ah, so the coal ship was just there so the lightship could be spotted? (Although both were completely stationary, and yet you say ships can't stay stationary?)

According to the GWX team (since I've never monkeyed about with campaign layers and such) If you scripted the lightship as a "ship", then it would drift with the seas. If you script it as an environmental object, it stays where its at, except your watch crew won't alert you to its presence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weiß Pinguin

Lightships are actually environmental objects, and you can't sink or target them. Historically they were generally left alone, as everyone used them for reference and such.

They're only worth 25 renown in GWX3. Not worth a torpedo. Heck, not even worth the deck gun shells.

Nah
Sort off
The lightship is classed as an enviromental because nothing left to class it as
Only so many type= designations to use and not wanting the lightship to show in convoys etc we had to make a plan B
lol
Anyway making them enviromental came with its own problems as crew didnt spot them giving you the chance of a wipeout by hitting one
Soooo
They will have a nother ship close by - tug\lighter\replen etc so your TC will drop to 8 and crew will warn you

Docked ships do drift unfortunately
Making them enviromental doesnt stop that

No ttried sinking one but you should be able too
I think
lol
Though as mookie posted
Not worth it and historically they were left alone though I think 1 may have been sunk off the US

Kapt Z · 02-05-09, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

Actually, coal is quite capable of exploding violently. A torpedo hit could easily throw a lot of coal dust into the air, which might subsequently be ignited by fires aboard the ship. Same principle as the MOAB

That's what I thought as well. Coal dust.

Sailor Steve · 02-05-09, 12:17 PM

If it was only 2800 tons you might also have gotten lucky and just removed all its hitpoints. That does still occasionally happen, and ships do still explode when it does.

Robert Fulton · 02-05-09, 01:18 PM

Coal dust in the air is most dangerous. An empty or near empty coal ship would likely be subject to exploding violently. Crews of WWI coal burning warships (e.g. the Emden) were alert to this danger and took measures to keep coal dust down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_dust

Galaga Galaxian · 02-05-09, 08:13 PM

Ok, I'm starting to wonder about that periscope....

I started my next patrol and sailed out of kiel, making sure to check the periscopes, both were clear as crystal. Sail 200km from nearest land, save, exit, run SC3 Gen to get mission orders and what not, come back, and now the attack periscope looks like this:

Is it because I didn't launch SH3 from SC3 commander when I reloaded it after using SC3 Gen? Its rather irritating, I've never had a malfunction before using SH3 Commander, and now I get two identical ones in a row, yet the periscope was fine leaving port?!? Would reloading my save using SC3 Commander to launch the game fix this? I never go back on saves (in fact I never save/quit in the middle of the patrol except to use SC3 Gen) but I'd be willing to do so to fix this unfortunate error.

[edit]

Ok, even more bizzare, I reloaded my SC3Gen save, checked the periscope, just fine! On a hunch I dive (first dive of the patrol) and pop the periscope up, now its Blurry! Gah, what the heck?!

02-04-09, 09:01 PM	#1
Galaga Galaxian Watch Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 25 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	A few random newbish questions (and one crazy periscope) Hey, been playing SH3 and GWX2.1/3.0 on and off for a couple months now, I've completed maybe two dozen patrols across three or four career, the majority of these in a Type-II in late 39, early 40. Anyways, I have a random assortment of questions. 1) On one of my latest patrols I was horrified to find my attack periscope was completely blurry, like someone had smeared Vaseline all over the lenses. We hadn't taken any kind of damage, nor was any listed on the F7 screen. I assume this is SC3 Commander's malfunctions at work? 2) Does using the ATLAS ECHOLOT to determine your depth under keel tip you off to any ASW that might be listening for you? I assume it does since it gives out a lovely sonar PING! when used. 3) Does playing your gramophone cause noise an ASW can pick up? I turn it off when something with hydrophones is in the area just to be cautious, but I'd like to be sure. 4) Is it normal for coal ships to explode violently after being hit by a torpedo, or did I just get a lucky hit recently? I can see a oil tanker exploding, but while coal is flammable (and so I was certain even one torpedo would doom the target if a fire started) I didn't quite expect the whole deck/superstructure to go BOOM after burning for a few minutes. Then again the whole encounter with the coal ship was unusual. It was parked 50ish km east from the entrance of the Firth of Forth alongside a navigational lightship. Damn, I was certain I had a few other questions, but that is all I can remember off the top of my head. Oh well. Thanks for the help! Last edited by Galaga Galaxian; 02-05-09 at 08:50 PM.

02-04-09, 09:09 PM	#2
A Very Super Market The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Deep in the Wild Canadian suburbs. Posts: 1,468 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Hi and welcome! Okay, you first question: Perhaps, perhaps. I haven't gotten any malfunctions (yet) myself, but unless you were screwing around with a bunch of different mods, it should be the work of some boozed up factory worker. 2 and 3, I think I read somewhere on the forums that the depth-measuring ping alerted destroyers. But the gramaphone definitely doesn't. You could blast some death metal and it wouldn't make a difference. 4, By coal ship, do you mean those tiny coal tenders? Or the cyclops? Most ships in GWX sink by flooding, so it would be a little unusual to have a non-tanker blow up like that. __________________ The entire German garrison of Vanviken, right here in your thread!

02-04-09, 09:41 PM	#4
A Very Super Market The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Deep in the Wild Canadian suburbs. Posts: 1,468 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Probably a critical damage hit, maybe the fuel tank. Ships still sometimes blow up __________________ The entire German garrison of Vanviken, right here in your thread!

02-04-09, 10:46 PM	#5
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	1. Yup. Blurry scopes are a sure sign of the SH3 Commander malfunction feature at work. Others include not being able to reach top speed even at ahead flank, and battery life that is noticeably shorter 2 & 3. Sadly, neither one of these alert destroyers to your presence. Test it for yourself in a single mission sometime. You can ping away to your hearts content and the DD's will happily sail along, none the wiser. It feels like cheating to me, so I don't do this in game. 4. The coal tenders next to the lightships are placed there so your watch crew will spot the lightships themselves. A limitation of the SH3 engine prevents stationary ships from staying stationary, and so in order to make lightships stay where they are, they have to be scripted as a unit type that isn't detectable. Anyways, it sounds like you got a lucky crit hit on the coal tender. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

02-05-09, 12:10 AM	#7
Weiss Pinguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Auburn, Alabama Posts: 3,333 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	Lightships are actually environmental objects, and you can't sink or target them. Historically they were generally left alone, as everyone used them for reference and such. __________________

02-04-09, 09:34 PM	#3
Galaga Galaxian Watch Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 25 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	It was a "Coal Freighter", 2800 tones. It was just sitting there next to a red-painted light ship and the notepad labeled it as "replenishment". I got the "She's going down" alert the second the torpedo hit her and after a couple minutes of floating on fire the upper surfaces exploded fantastically and she went under in seconds (did not break apart though).

02-05-09, 12:04 AM	#6
Galaga Galaxian Watch Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 25 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Ah, so the coal ship was just there so the lightship could be spotted? (Although both were completely stationary, and yet you say ships can't stay stationary?) I'll just assume it was a Royal Navy resupply point or something, even though I question the logic of having a blinking lightship saying "Hey here is a juicy coal ship!". (Or the need of a resupply point a mere 50km from the Scottish coast) Are lightships even valid targets? I've never seen one fly a flag of any nation, and I can't remember seeing one in the ship recognition book, though they're so obvious I've never bothered to try to look them up. Good to know about the Echolot and the Gramophone, I'll still probably keep myself from using them just to be "appropriate". Thanks for confirming the periscope too, as well as tips on other malfunctions to watch for. Ironically that same patrol when we left Kiel I specifically raised and lowered the periscopes while still in port to make sure they were working (I also performed a few other tests). Next time I better remember to look through them!

02-05-09, 12:15 AM	#8
UnderseaLcpl Silent Hunter Join Date: May 2008 Location: Storming the beaches! Posts: 4,254 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Actually, coal is quite capable of exploding violently. A torpedo hit could easily throw a lot of coal dust into the air, which might subsequently be ignited by fires aboard the ship. Same principle as the MOAB __________________ I stole this sig from Task Force

02-05-09, 01:01 AM	#9
Galaga Galaxian Watch Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 25 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Yeah, I specifically aimed at the rear/center hold full of coal, I figured "well, if I manage to start a fire in the hold, nothing is putting that sucker out, even if she stays afloat she'll be a burned out wreck".

02-05-09, 12:17 PM	#13
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	If it was only 2800 tons you might also have gotten lucky and just removed all its hitpoints. That does still occasionally happen, and ships do still explode when it does. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

02-05-09, 01:18 PM	#14
Robert Fulton Mate Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: USA Posts: 59 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Coal dust in the air is most dangerous. An empty or near empty coal ship would likely be subject to exploding violently. Crews of WWI coal burning warships (e.g. the Emden) were alert to this danger and took measures to keep coal dust down. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_dust

02-05-09, 08:13 PM	#15
Galaga Galaxian Watch Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 25 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Ok, I'm starting to wonder about that periscope.... I started my next patrol and sailed out of kiel, making sure to check the periscopes, both were clear as crystal. Sail 200km from nearest land, save, exit, run SC3 Gen to get mission orders and what not, come back, and now the attack periscope looks like this: Is it because I didn't launch SH3 from SC3 commander when I reloaded it after using SC3 Gen? Its rather irritating, I've never had a malfunction before using SH3 Commander, and now I get two identical ones in a row, yet the periscope was fine leaving port?!? Would reloading my save using SC3 Commander to launch the game fix this? I never go back on saves (in fact I never save/quit in the middle of the patrol except to use SC3 Gen) but I'd be willing to do so to fix this unfortunate error. [edit] Ok, even more bizzare, I reloaded my SC3Gen save, checked the periscope, just fine! On a hunch I dive (first dive of the patrol) and pop the periscope up, now its Blurry! Gah, what the heck?! Last edited by Galaga Galaxian; 02-05-09 at 08:49 PM.