Two more critics of Vladimir Putin take bullets in the head

[Onkel Neal]

ANOTHER RUSSIAN fighting for human rights and the rule of law has been murdered in Vladimir Putin's Moscow. Stanislav Markelov, a lawyer who defended Chechens brutalized by Russian troops and journalists who wrote about the abuses, was shot in the head yesterday by a masked man carrying a silencer-equipped pistol. An opposition journalist who tried to intervene, Anastasia Baburova, was also fatally shot in the head. This occurred in broad daylight, on a busy street in central Moscow less than half a mile from the Kremlin. It was another demonstration that assassinations are a dominating feature of political life under Mr. Putin's regime.

The larger story here is of serial murders of Mr. Putin's opponents, at home and abroad. Ms. Baburova, 25, is at least the 15th journalist to be slain since Mr. Putin took power. No one has been held accountable in any of the cases -- including that of Anna Politkovskaya, a former client of Mr. Markelov who also was murdered execution-style in broad daylight, on Mr. Putin's birthday in 2006. In London, dissident former KGB agent Alexander Litvinenko was poisoned; so was Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko, who survived. Karina Moskalenko, another opposition lawyer who has represented Ms. Politkovkaya's family, fell ill from mercury poisoning in Strasbourg, France, in October, just before a hearing in the case. Last week in Vienna, a Chechen dissident who had received political asylum was murdered on the street -- shot twice in the head.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...011902604.html

Wow, Russia, you really are making progress...

You know, I'm shocked not to find more outrage here in GT about this. I mean, George Bush is gone, so I would think his courageous, outspoken critics would turn their sights on some other act of atrocity. I mean, there is still some bad stuff in the world with Bush gone, isn't there?

Well, yeah, I mean, ya know, dude, we have to keep fighting the eveel Amerikuns, you know.We don't have time to fight cuddly Mr Putin, and Chavez, Kim Il jung, or Akmehadexahdez at the same time....those guys don't merit our attention...

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Wow, Russia, you really are making progress...

You know, I'm shocked not to find more outrage here in GT about this. I mean, George Bush is gone, so I would think his courageous, outspoken critics would turn their sights on some other act of atrocity. I mean, there is still some bad stuff in the world with Bush gone, isn't there?

Well, yeah, I mean, ya know, dude, we have to keep fighting the eveel Amerikuns, you know.We don't have time to fight cuddly Mr Putin, and Chavez, Kim Il jung, or Akmehadexahdez at the same time....those guys don't merit our attention...

Oh, I have plenty of outrage about it. I'm outraged that we aren't taking advantage of the situation through economic dominance via free-market policy.

And surely, you wouldn't believe that liberal Bush-bashers are going to focus on this kind of stuff. After all, the media hasn't told them to vent their outrage about it yet. Don't you remember? Genocide against Kurds in Iraq is okay, but toppling the Baathist perpetrators isn't. And btw, they don't care if the U.S. leaves the country and paves the way for Shiite Muslims to massacre Sunni Muslims. They care about American soldiers, but not enough to stop encouraging extremist agressors whose entire strategy is to undermine the American people's will.

I hope you're prepared to watch as almost every single act of "incompetence" under Bush is repeated or exacerbated under Obama with little to no criticism.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I'm sure you're aware that we're travelling that familliar path.

[joegrundman]

oh cool! another "aren't liberals rubbish" thread.

We haven't had any of these recently

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by joegrundman

oh cool! another "aren't liberals rubbish" thread.

We haven't had any of these recently

Liberals are merely accountable to their own words and deeds. I know liberals don't like it but tough crap.

[Hunter]

Working with press and living here in Russia I am always wondering how media in general and western one especialy manages to pervert facts and wash brains with far going 'analisys' on 'Putin's regime' just as soon as another freaky jornalist or a businessmen with criminal bakground dies due to involvement with former Olgarchs business, Chechen mafia and other dirty things. Anna Pulitkovskaya, once used to be famous by its freaky articles in support of Chechen insurgents, both of above sponsored by Boris Berezovsky who had profitable drug, weapon and diamond business with then Chechen President Dudaev, former Beresovsky's chef of security Alexander Litvinenko, once again Beresovsky's Georgian bisines partner and personal enemy of Michail Saakashvilli who had to escape from Georgia after competeting in election campain Badry Patarcazishvilli, and even Ukrain president who was poisoned during drinking Vodka all night long vis-a-vis his own cheif of National security service must be realy 'democratic' leaders who endangered 'bloody KGB' regime esteblushed in Russia by Vladimir Putin. And 34-years old lawer Stansilav Markelov, and Anastasia Baburova, who is called 'An opposition journalist' while realy started her journalist carrier just 3 month ago, being a second year student, must be acctually a heavyweight persons to make Putin to order assasinate them causing widespread reaction in press. Nonsence![quote]ANOTHER RUSSIAN fighting for human rights and the rule of law has been murdered in Vladimir Putin's Moscow. [\GUOTE]After 08.08.08 we have a joke here in Russia that the only human rights protection organization in this part of world is Russian Army, which grants peace, living and dignity for about 150 million Russians and other former Soviet citizens rulled by various freaks.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Hunter

After 08.08.08 we have a joke here in Russia that the only human rights protection organization in this part of world is Russian Army, which grants peace, living and dignity for about 150 million Russians and other former Soviet citizens rulled by various freaks.

Yikes!! I hope for your sake and ours that is only a joke.

[Hunter]

[quote=Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Yikes!! I hope for your sake and ours that is only a joke.

As Russians say each joke has its share of hummor
(as well as its share of thuth obviously)
other human rights organisations acting in Russia proved themselves throught 1990s to protect everyone's reghts except co-citizence ones. They could do everything with Russian population in Chechnia and some of of former Soviet Republic prohibit language, withdraw civil rights, pasports, rape, enslave, kidnap, cut throats etc, but noone of those rightwhatchers said a word against it. For them it was always the government guilty for implementing force to protect citizens.
Neither they didn't said a word against oligarchy and coruption which florished during Yeltsin term in office and have stolen most profitable nationional industries making millions people job- and homeles within 1991-93. But they always stand against Putin who established certain rules in economy and national administration (you have to pay taxes and stay loyal to the country. Otherweise, there is no reason for your business just steal national resorces), and regained control over economy from the gangsters, and made the whole system to progress with more or less success. Unfortunately, it is still based on his own authority and there is no grant that if he retire the chair won't be occupied by a person who thinks about his own pocet rather than about the nation. And I bet that if such person would came to power in Russia, it would be imidiately called a truly democratic leader in western media. But, right now we need a strong leader who could finish all that mess and keep national administration working. Concidering, popularity of Russian Prime Mnister and misirable authority of opositon among population, it is hard to believe that there are any reason to kill anyone.

[XabbaRus]

I must admit that the killing is sad and given that he was a lawyer working on human rights cases (the one in particular I think was successful in that he got jailed, albeit later released) is always going to get press attention.

I think what the western press and people forget is that it isn't just human rights lawyers and journalists who criticise the government that get murdered. They are just the most high profile. There have been quite a few lawyers murdered for running cases against businessmen not connected with the Kremlin, I'd say more so. Also the statistics that X number of journalists have been killed since Putin came to power is a ridiculous statistic. All it says is that being a journalist in Russia is risky. It does not mean Putin has ordered the murders as is insinuated.

Back to this guy Markelov. Yes he did good work. Reading about Budonov he is an evil twisted guy who, did get tried and imprisoned. You know if it was embarrasing to Putin he could of been released or not tried by his order but wasn't.

Now he must have friend somewhere but look at it this way. Markelov got him put away. He is released and upset, being who he is he knows people or has money to pay a hitman (Not hard in Russia). Due to the case they know where Markelov is and gun him down. Notice they only went for him. The woman was hurt trying to grapple with the gunman (this to me suggests not a professional KGB style hit but a revenge style paid for killer). So lets stop the Putin ordered it.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I mean, there is still some bad stuff in the world with Bush gone, isn't there?

No, not really. :p

[Skybird]

He is not the first critical voice being intimidated or killed, and won'T be the last. How far Putin is directly or even just indirectly responisble for it, is simly this: unknown. There are a lot of business interests and government-loyal oligarchs rallied around the Kremlin who are capable to act on their own, without needing to get presidential orders to kill somebody threatening them with his public criticism. I stick to what I always said: I know a lot of far, far worse dictators in the present, and in history, and I see no alternative for Russia in the forseeable future to the strong hand leading the nation from the top. for us outsiders, it is not to criticise that, or demand they must do like we want them to do, or think they should wish to do like we imagine they should. Putin is incredibly popular in Russia, never forget that - he is what many Russians want, you like it or not. And for us foreigners, we should focus on the simple fact that we have strong interest in aa stable Russia, this is of paramo8nt importance, and this is what we should focus on most. Everything else diminishes in comparison to this: stability in Russia. Because that means a predictably acting Russia, where the military is under control, the many different ethnicities between the Baltic and Kamchatka do not break apart in civil wars and independence movements, and oligarchs may come to wealth, but not to such political power again like it was the case under more democratic but weaker Yeltsin.

Live with it, Neal. Your put up indignation is unconvincing, since you want political conditions that make Russia more vulnerable again to American interest-pushing in russia and in the world as well, like it was possible under Yeltsin. But as I see it, the Russians have neither any obligation nor any intention to act in your favour and by that violating their own vital interests. As was to be seen repeatedly in the past 6 months.

I wonder if Obama will carry on a course of provoking Russia, or not. Their international cooperation is much more important for both Europe and the US, than is the question of their government system. that after having been lied to, having been betrayed and provoked and ridiculed and been given promises that were broken time and again, Putin has changed his once West-friendly political attitude and now is convinced that the West can only be dealt with if meeting it from a position of enough Russian strength to keep it at arm's length, is understandable after the past 10, 15 years. The man has changed, no doubt. But that is not by random chance, but is more a logical reaction.

If you want to worry about tyranny and injustice, look at the genocide in Kongo - much of it accepted by Western companies (last but not leats American companies), because the ethnic conflict touches vital economic supply interests of the West with very rare ores as well, needed for our high tech and electronic industries without which there would not be any electronic board components and newly produced PCs. Now that link is something worth to be upset about. "Brussel's and Washington's heart of darkness", somebody has called it.

Anyone...?

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Skybird

for us outsiders, it is not to criticise that, or demand they must do like we want them to do, or think they should wish to do like we imagine they should.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Double standard. If it's Bush or America, criticize. Anyone else, even if they are truly as bad or worse than you imagine the US is, hands off.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Yeah, that's what I thought. Double standard. If it's Bush or America, criticize. Anyone else, even if they are truly as bad or worse than you imagine the US is, hands off.

Bush has caused the misery and suffering and death of far more people than Putin. Under bush, the Us detoriated and lost in power, wealth and prestige and trustworthiness. Under Putin, the middleclass got moderate gains in wealth, and modest wealth is spreading for more people in Russia than ever before in Russian history, while he called the oligarchs to discipline by showing them an iron-gloved fist. If you want to compare the record of Bush with that of Putin, Bush loses by a huge margin. Now that is some tough pill to chew on for you, eh? Double standards it is if seeing the splinter in the other's eye, but not the beam in one's own eye. Your nation after the past 8 years is in no position to hold moral lectures to other people and nations. Get off that high horse and clean your own house before pointing at the dirt of others. The negative legacy of Bush weighs multiple times heavier than that of Putinistan - and all the world must pay for your failures currently. And all too often foreign people must die for it, too.

[Kapt Z]

You just can't keep an old KGB guy down....

[Onkel Neal]

Interesting, when you have to resort to Bible scriptures to make a point.

Still, thank you for conceding my point. I guess Putin is an angel.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I guess Putin is an angel.

Do you? Well, I don't.