Is Brown right to be worried about OPEC?

XabbaRus · 12-19-08, 09:38 AM

My opinion is that Brown is right to question OPECs power and the response from the head of OPEC about UK petrol taxes is a strawman argument....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7791269.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7791985.stm

Skybird · 12-19-08, 10:00 AM

OPEC is a cartel, so what did he expect. Of course they try to raise the price by reducing production. and there is no moral or legal position we could take to lecture them that they should not do it.

we should have started to adress OPEC's power in the early 70s, after the oil crisis. but no idiot around was willing to draw the consequences of that OPEC demonstration of power to the West. That now people like Brown just can imagine to call for rewgulation of all and everything, like Sarkozy wanted to overregulate finace markets as well in reply to the crisis, just reveals that the British stand on gaining power and control is not that much different to that of the EU as well: raise the governing elite'S adminstrational powers.

Back in the 70s and today, there is only one reasonable strategy that is future-safe and provides us with a longterm perspective of not being vulnerable to OPEC policies: and that is becoming independant from oil. This should be the top priority of longterm economic policies. It also means to kick major Western energy companies out of power so that they can no longer influence politics by lobbying so massively so that they can prevent this strategy, now and for the forseeable future as well.

Over-regulation is no good thing.

But too little regulation and leaving private economy business completely regulating itself, also is a bad thing. In a capitalist order, the clash between the selfish interests of the company and the socially responsible interests of the community that way is preprogrammed.

Schroeder · 12-19-08, 10:49 AM

@Skybird
I agree totally.

If we don't manage to get away from oil than we are pretty much asking for the OPEC to play games with us.

jumpy · 12-19-08, 11:23 AM

Nevermind about opec.

Brown ought to be more concerned with the people who live in this country stringing him up from the nearest lamp post.

After having paid my taxes over the years and what not, I'm told that because I signed on the dole earlier this year (in march this year, following redundancy in oct 2007) then having only intermittent temp jobs for a month or two here and a month or two there, I'm told that I'm not entitled to any more state 'help' this year and will have to sign off for a minimum of 12 weeks with no job, and no money before they'll open a fresh claim, as opposed to a continuation. I'll get nothing in the way of assistance from dec 22nd (starting from the 9th dec). Whenever I've been unemployed I've never just run down to the job centre and said "giz meh moneh naah!". I've waited and spent my carefully husbanded savings to live on accordingly - only when I have nothing left and no certain income have I opted for state help. When I and many others need it most we are told to take a long walk off a short pier.

Now with the worst economic climate in the UK since the miners strikes, with no prospect of decent employment any time soon (xmas period is always dead for work) and total refusal of state help, my other half has to support us both, which is extra pressure on her mental health (which is none to stable right now, what with consultant psychiatrists and heavy anti depressants) - she's only just gone back to work, but because she works more than 24 hours per week, and earns in excess of 16k pa, we have been refused working tax credit, housing benefit (help with rent), job seekers allowance (me). About the only thing we might get is a 25% reduction in our council tax bill. If you divide her income between the two of us it equates to less than 10k per annum, gross. I almost hate to say it, but if we were immigrants with loads of kids, we'd be laughing.

Nevermind about opec.

This government has been raking it in for the last decade, then wasting money on projects like the millennium dome, super computers for the nhs that don't work, unpopular wars in the middle east and countless local government initiatives and spending for just about everybody who doesn't hold a brittish passport - come on in to the UK have a house, appliances and as much money for your 10 kids (who still live somewhere in eastern europe or wherever) as you want.

They were quite happy to bail out the banks who squandered other peoples money, pissing it all away trying to make even more profit, to the tune of a billion something quid of taxpayers money, now they are making it harder to get state help, for everyone from healthy people to those with chronic illness and disability - work for you benefit or get stuffed. Telling people to go and get work... what ******* work?! My local jobcentre tells me that there are 400 000 jobs in the UK; the latest figures on unemployment are something are around the 2.5 to 3 million mark, depending on which massaged government figures you want to use or combine. Job listings at the jobcentre and in my local paper have virtually dried up - not even the rudest van driving job for minimum wage is available. The jobs pages have gone from 10-12 pages to 1 or 2 which are mostly adverts for recruiting companies and 'in house' vacancies for local government which will not go to the public at large but have to be advertised publicly to maintain the appearance of equal job opportunities.

Brown is a posturing idiot who ought to be removed from office (no one voted for him to be there) before he does this country any more harm. He'll happily give away 25m to aid developing countries to invest in low carbon initiatives (see xabba's first link), meanwhile this country is slowly but surely going to ****. Redundancies, bankruptcy, reduction of (what little we have left) manufacturing production, reducing workers hours to avoid insolvency, the list goes on. About the only business that is returning a profit are the 'home brewing' sellers; for 40 pence a pint of beer and 70 pence per bottle of wine it beats the stuffing out of paying up to £3.00 a pint in a pub or bar.

What do we hear about all of this in the news, what's being done to help ordinary folk in these times? FA of anything with any real merit. Cutting VAT is all very well and good if your reference for financial policy is 'economics for dummies'. It's just another sign of this governments determination to spend their way out of debt using other peoples money and expecting the rest of us to do the same and tow the line.

Sorry for the rant guys, reading those articles brought it all bubbling to the surface again - it's been a tough couple of months recently, with everything that she and I have worked so hard towards gradually slipping through our fingers through no fault of our own.
I can only see this economic trouble here in the UK as just the beginning - If I was a betting man, I'd say things are going to get a whole damn sight worse for just about everybody except sodding politicians

AVGWarhawk · 12-19-08, 11:41 AM

Skybird is right. There is no obligation morally or just being nice about for OPEC. I believe it was Bush a few months back who was basically begging to lower the cost per barrel as the per gallon of gas in the US was $4.00+. I did not work. Like most things Bush attempted.

caspofungin · 12-19-08, 02:07 PM

@jumpy

sorry to hear about your situation, mate. wish i could say things will get better soon...

Schroeder · 12-19-08, 02:18 PM

@Jumpy
I hope you situatuion will become better soon.

12-19-08, 09:38 AM	#1
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Is Brown right to be worried about OPEC? My opinion is that Brown is right to question OPECs power and the response from the head of OPEC about UK petrol taxes is a strawman argument.... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7791269.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7791985.stm __________________

12-19-08, 10:00 AM	#2
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,603 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	OPEC is a cartel, so what did he expect. Of course they try to raise the price by reducing production. and there is no moral or legal position we could take to lecture them that they should not do it. we should have started to adress OPEC's power in the early 70s, after the oil crisis. but no idiot around was willing to draw the consequences of that OPEC demonstration of power to the West. That now people like Brown just can imagine to call for rewgulation of all and everything, like Sarkozy wanted to overregulate finace markets as well in reply to the crisis, just reveals that the British stand on gaining power and control is not that much different to that of the EU as well: raise the governing elite'S adminstrational powers. Back in the 70s and today, there is only one reasonable strategy that is future-safe and provides us with a longterm perspective of not being vulnerable to OPEC policies: and that is becoming independant from oil. This should be the top priority of longterm economic policies. It also means to kick major Western energy companies out of power so that they can no longer influence politics by lobbying so massively so that they can prevent this strategy, now and for the forseeable future as well. Over-regulation is no good thing. But too little regulation and leaving private economy business completely regulating itself, also is a bad thing. In a capitalist order, the clash between the selfish interests of the company and the socially responsible interests of the community that way is preprogrammed. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 12-19-08 at 10:05 AM.

12-19-08, 10:49 AM	#3
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	@Skybird I agree totally. If we don't manage to get away from oil than we are pretty much asking for the OPEC to play games with us. __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.

12-19-08, 11:23 AM	#4
jumpy Admiral Join Date: May 2003 Location: Midlands, UK Posts: 2,139 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	Nevermind about opec. Brown ought to be more concerned with the people who live in this country stringing him up from the nearest lamp post. After having paid my taxes over the years and what not, I'm told that because I signed on the dole earlier this year (in march this year, following redundancy in oct 2007) then having only intermittent temp jobs for a month or two here and a month or two there, I'm told that I'm not entitled to any more state 'help' this year and will have to sign off for a minimum of 12 weeks with no job, and no money before they'll open a fresh claim, as opposed to a continuation. I'll get nothing in the way of assistance from dec 22nd (starting from the 9th dec). Whenever I've been unemployed I've never just run down to the job centre and said "giz meh moneh naah!". I've waited and spent my carefully husbanded savings to live on accordingly - only when I have nothing left and no certain income have I opted for state help. When I and many others need it most we are told to take a long walk off a short pier. Now with the worst economic climate in the UK since the miners strikes, with no prospect of decent employment any time soon (xmas period is always dead for work) and total refusal of state help, my other half has to support us both, which is extra pressure on her mental health (which is none to stable right now, what with consultant psychiatrists and heavy anti depressants) - she's only just gone back to work, but because she works more than 24 hours per week, and earns in excess of 16k pa, we have been refused working tax credit, housing benefit (help with rent), job seekers allowance (me). About the only thing we might get is a 25% reduction in our council tax bill. If you divide her income between the two of us it equates to less than 10k per annum, gross. I almost hate to say it, but if we were immigrants with loads of kids, we'd be laughing. Nevermind about opec. This government has been raking it in for the last decade, then wasting money on projects like the millennium dome, super computers for the nhs that don't work, unpopular wars in the middle east and countless local government initiatives and spending for just about everybody who doesn't hold a brittish passport - come on in to the UK have a house, appliances and as much money for your 10 kids (who still live somewhere in eastern europe or wherever) as you want. They were quite happy to bail out the banks who squandered other peoples money, pissing it all away trying to make even more profit, to the tune of a billion something quid of taxpayers money, now they are making it harder to get state help, for everyone from healthy people to those with chronic illness and disability - work for you benefit or get stuffed. Telling people to go and get work... what ***** work?! My local jobcentre tells me that there are 400 000 jobs in the UK; the latest figures on unemployment are something are around the 2.5 to 3 million mark, depending on which massaged government figures you want to use or combine. Job listings at the jobcentre and in my local paper have virtually dried up - not even the rudest van driving job for minimum wage is available. The jobs pages have gone from 10-12 pages to 1 or 2 which are mostly adverts for recruiting companies and 'in house' vacancies for local government which will not go to the public at large but have to be advertised publicly to maintain the appearance of equal job opportunities. Brown is a posturing idiot who ought to be removed from office (no one voted for him to be there) before he does this country any more harm. He'll happily give away 25m to aid developing countries to invest in low carbon initiatives (see xabba's first link), meanwhile this country is slowly but surely going to *. Redundancies, bankruptcy, reduction of (what little we have left) manufacturing production, reducing workers hours to avoid insolvency, the list goes on. About the only business that is returning a profit are the 'home brewing' sellers; for 40 pence a pint of beer and 70 pence per bottle of wine it beats the stuffing out of paying up to £3.00 a pint in a pub or bar. What do we hear about all of this in the news, what's being done to help ordinary folk in these times? FA of anything with any real merit. Cutting VAT is all very well and good if your reference for financial policy is 'economics for dummies'. It's just another sign of this governments determination to spend their way out of debt using other peoples money and expecting the rest of us to do the same and tow the line. Sorry for the rant guys, reading those articles brought it all bubbling to the surface again - it's been a tough couple of months recently, with everything that she* and I have worked so hard towards gradually slipping through our fingers through no fault of our own. I can only see this economic trouble here in the UK as just the beginning - If I was a betting man, I'd say things are going to get a whole damn sight worse for just about everybody except sodding politicians __________________ when you’ve been so long in the desert, any water, no matter how brackish, looks like life

12-19-08, 11:41 AM	#5
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,253 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Skybird is right. There is no obligation morally or just being nice about for OPEC. I believe it was Bush a few months back who was basically begging to lower the cost per barrel as the per gallon of gas in the US was $4.00+. I did not work. Like most things Bush attempted. __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

12-19-08, 02:07 PM	#6
caspofungin Commander Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 459 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 0	@jumpy sorry to hear about your situation, mate. wish i could say things will get better soon... Last edited by caspofungin; 12-19-08 at 02:07 PM.

12-19-08, 02:18 PM	#7
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	@Jumpy I hope you situatuion will become better soon. __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.