World's First Computer Rebuilt, Rebooted After 2,000 Years

[Silverleaf]

Now this is fascinating ...

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/1...npu=1&mbid=yhp

[magic452]

Very interesting find. I had heard of this but never heard that they got one working.

What the story didn't say is why the Greeks through it into the sea.
It never worked properly, had windows VISTA installed. :rotfl::rotfl:

Magic452
sink all but six and save them for pallbearers.

[GoldenRivet]

Just think... if it weren't for the catholic church during the medieval times we would be about 500-1000 years more advanced in technology than we currently are

very cool find

[UnderseaLcpl]

I wonder what they'll say about Vista 200 years from now:hmm:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Just think... if it weren't for the catholic church during the medieval times we would be about 500-1000 years more advanced in technology than we currently are

I not entirely sure that statement is accurate, and it isn't fair to blame that on the Catholics in any case. The Catholics did not cause the dark ages, and despite their many policies that, in hindsight, were stupid and authoritarian, they did provide a much-needed source of order from time to time. It could be argued that Europe would have taken even longer to emerge from barbarism had the Church not waged the wars and wielded the influence that it did.

There are a lot of other factors involved as well, from disease and caused by poor sanitation that culminated in the Black Death, to the constant feuding of nobles and warlords, something that Europe did not outgrow after the Rennaissance.

The effect was further mitigated by the Crusades, I'm sure you already know why.


Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the Catholic Church, having been turned away from communion at Mass several times for being a Protestant, but I don't like seeing such sweeping and significant accusations being made against a group of people like that. I'm not mad or trying to be condescending, but I think a little more consideration might be in order before accusing someone's beliefs of retarding the process of humanity for the better part of a millenia.:hmm:

[Christopher Snow]

[quote=magic452]Very interesting find. I had heard of this but never heard that they got one working.

What the story didn't say is why the Greeks through it into the sea.
It never worked properly, had windows VISTA installed. :rotfl::rotfl:

HAHAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

[AntEater]

The hellenic world really had some cool gadgets. Regarding the middle ages, for our german language readers, there's an excellent article in the german Wikipedia.
Sadly I couldn't find an equivalent in the english one.
It is apparently established by science that the loss of antique knowledge did not take place in the middle ages, but way before it, between 300 and 560 AD.
Antique knowledge was lost while the roman empire still existed!
Conclusion of the article was "most ancient books were definitely lost before 800, most likely even before 500 AD".
Evidence for that is the fact that even the byzantine empire did not have more antique literature than we have today, and Constantinople was never plundered by anyone before 1203.
Also, early medieval catalogues do not list books we do not have.
It seems that many in the middle ages actually tried to preserve what was still there, there's hardly any work known to have been lost in the middle ages.
In contrary, the crusaders brought back many works lost in the west that had been kept by the byzantines, arabs or persians, for example most of the works of Aristotle.
So if anything, antique knowledge increased in the middle ages, not decreased.
However, this was limited to a small percentage of people.
Weird thing is, the sheer volume of literature of the antique age was only surpassed in the 19th century.
Same as people in Europe only enjoyed the same kind of sanitation and standard of living as the average roman in the 19th century.

So why were those books lost in the late roman empire?
Sources are scant, but it seems the rise of christianity brought along a cultural revolution worse than that of Mao.
Not only christianity, but a number of religions competed for the average romans salvation in the late empire, and all of them did not like the old ways.

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Just think... if it weren't for the catholic church during the medieval times we would be about 500-1000 years more advanced in technology than we currently are

very cool find

That's only in parts correct. The catholic church was the only institution that survived the breakdown of the roman Empire and the devastation of civilisation more or less intact. All the classic knowledge that was lost nearly everywhere else survived in its huge libraries. Only thanks to that, combined with the fall of Constantinopel, was the renaissance as we know it possible.

This certainly does not deny that the church was a great barrier to progress.

P.S. Should have read Anteaters response before posting. He certainly was a bit more elaborate on the topic once again ; )

[AntEater]

The old theory on loss of antique knowledge was:
The ancient books were papyrus scrolls, the medieval scribes only copied the "religiously correct" or otherwise interesting on pergament codices (books) and left the scrolls to rot, as papyrus is more fragile.

Strange thing with that theory is that papyrus does not have a longer shelf life (pun intended) than pergament.
There are few, but apparently a dozen or so rolls of papyrus did actually survive from antiquity to today in libraries and those are still readable after 1500 years.
Also, a lot of rolls have survived in dry climate in egypt and were found by archaeologists in our century.
So it was not a "maintenance issue", but rather one of deliberate destruction.
In 475, the newly founded library of Constantinoble burned down and was said to have contained 12000 titles.
In 560, Cassiodorus was reputed to have the largest library in the world and he had slightly less than 1000. Interestingly, he lived in Italy, not in Constantinople.
This was the age when Hypathia was murdered by Christians.
Somehow it seems to me that the old way of thinking early christians=good, medieval christians=bad is not exactly true.
More like the opposite.
Reminds me of how they found a roman cave temple on the Via Mala pass in Switzerland unouched since the antiquity and in the burned out temple there was the skeleton of the priest with an iron spike driven up his rectum....
In Saarburg in 1905 they found a tied up mithras priest who had apparently been buried alive.

[GoldenRivet]

i dont mean to blame the dark ages on the catholics.

Just the catholic inquisition i guess... because everything and any idea or invention that could even slightly be viewed as remotely radical or unique got you a one way ticket to be burned at the stake.

hell of a way to promote technological and scientific growth.

[sharkbit]

42

[Morts]

Originally Posted by sharkbit

42

:rotfl: :rotfl:

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by sharkbit

42

I missed something

[Morts]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I missed something

its the answer to everything

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Morts

its the answer to everything

i thought that was "maybe"

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

i dont mean to blame the dark ages on the catholics.

Just the catholic inquisition i guess... because everything and any idea or invention that could even slightly be viewed as remotely radical or unique got you a one way ticket to be burned at the stake.

hell of a way to promote technological and scientific growth.

AFAIK, that is not "that" true, either. The church was not anti science and progress per se. They just stepped in if some discovery or philosophy was clearly against church agenda. That in itself is bad enough, but it's not as general anti as is believed more often then not.

Also, as we are at it, most witch burnings and similiar events were not initiated by the church or the Inquisition, but by common ppl looking for scrapegoats. During the high times of witch burnings the Inquisition actually tried to stop or at least limit this practice that appearantly got out of hand.

Oh, and you really have to read the "hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy" =)