How it came that two German agents were awared US medals

[Skybird]

"How German agents helped to pave the war into Iraq"

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...596584,00.html

This is about the true role of the German intelligence agency BND in the early stages of the attack on Iraq 2003.

It has been claimed by some right-wing concrete-heads in this forum that European and even German intel data helped to convicne the Bush administration to believe that there were nuclear weapons being built in Iraq. I always rejected this hilarious claim, and this latest story again supports my position. In fact the administration ordered the US intel service what kind of evidence for nuclear weapons it should produce in order to give the casus belli for a war decision that already had been made.

I also pointed out back then, that despite the hostile rethorics between US and european politicians, the cooperation between the US and european nations on the basis of intel gathering always remained to be incredibly close, and intact. This has been especially true for the US and France, whose vital role in anti terror operations in Europe and Afghanistan I repatedly have pointed out, and the US and Germany as well, regarding Iraq. What only few people know is that the BND is one of the most informed and effective Western intel services active in the ME region. They remain a very, very low profile about that, and right they do in that. The French are like that, too.

I did not know all what is now revealed in this linked essay, I did not know that there was a constant stream of BND-data from Iraq, affecting US tactical calculations to such a wide degree. But in 2003, we knew this and it was reported, at least rumoured in German news: that two BND agents were operating in Bagdad (this is old news for us over here) whose reports on suspected locations of Saddam and one very hot piece of info in the night of the first strike even triggered that american attempt to decapitalise the regime by changing plans and sending one early volley of missiles into Bagdhad in an attempt to get Saddam himself before the war even had officially - and by plan - begun: this also is old news. I am surprised how easily this has been forgotten in Germany again, and how successful this poison-mouthed moron Schroeder and his administration were in giving a totally different appearance regarding Germany's position on the war. Later, the news lost track of what happened with the two BND agents. They simply faded out of the public'S focus. We were left with an impression that they maybe have triggered that first strike, and then dissappeared, probably had left Iraq. That they supported American tactical assessements on the ground for weeks to come, was new to me.

In America it was tried to raise the impression that the Bush administration concluded on the nuclear threat also by intel from Europe, so again I stress that with the exception of the infamous so-called "London missile memo" (what non-starter that turned out to be!), this are political lies that are not in conformity with what we know about the real intel quality flowing from european agencies to the US military and US administration. To say, like some people in this forum did and still do, that European intel helped to construct the impression of an Iraqi nuclear threat, always was wrong, and still is wrong. It is a historic fact that European nations time and again warned the Bush administration that they found no evidence for a still active nuclear program, and that they could not verify American political claims about such a threat existing. but the warnings met deaf ears in Washington - it was not what they wanted to hear in the White House. Even the American intel community felt uncomfortable, to put it mildly, about the claims by Bush and his gang. Next they found themselves being ignored in their warning, an then being more or less commanded what kind of intel results they should produce in order to support the casus belli already claimed by politicians. Whether that produced "evidence" was real or fake evidence, was unimportant. The criterion was that it stated the desired claims.

[Frame57]

Does not surprise me coming from Der Speigel. They probably deny the thousands of Kurds that were killed by Sadaam and other atrocities the man did. War is a reality, get over it, you are going to see one hell of lot more of it in your lifetime.

Actually "Der Spiegel" hardly denies anything, but brought quite a few articles on the matter. "Der Spiegel" ist one of Europes most recognized investigative news magazines. In it's 60 years of existence it got targeted by the state a couple times for uncovering some very sensitive affairs of Watergate level proportions. Basicly what the New York times has been in the US in former decades.

It's more then legit to question the Spiegels agenda and judgements at times, but there yet has to be a scandal surrounding this weekly magazine for talking nonsense.

And like most ppl and newspapers here, it does not buy this "killed kurds" stuff brought up as justification by Bush and his crownies for this war. If that was the case US troops would be occupying half of Africa and Asia by now. One criminal killing the other does not make the "winner" any better and/or gives him the right of judgement.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Frame57

War is a reality, get over it, you are going to see one hell of lot more of it in your lifetime.

agreed

besides... bush is out within the next 20ish days... what on earth will the world bitch about when he leaves office?

[August]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

agreed

besides... bush is out within the next 20ish days... what on earth will the world bitch about when he leaves office?

The leg humpers of the world will just switch to Obama...

[AntEater]

Ok, from what I've heard in english language forums, everybody and his dog gets the medal they got.
German sources always assume somebody actually has to do something to get an award.
This is kind of funny as the federal merit cross is awarded quite inflationary.
I think the US is pretty much showering foreign units with awards, with pretty much every unit getting unit citations and whatever.
Kind of like the Russians who gave so many "Heroes of the Russian federation" to Caucasus warlords and other shady characters that they had to reinstate the czar era Cross of St.George in the Ossetian war to have a real war decoration.

What these two agents actually did was do some backup HUMINT for the US, but I doubt it was of decisive value.
The mere fact alone that officially registered german embassy officials could hang around near SAM sites and the likes in wartime shows how badly shaken the Saddam regime allready was.
It is nice to have some eyes on the ground, but if these two guys did anything, it was saving iraqui lives by giving last minute updates on targets.

[Frame57]

The way I look at it, when you have a rat infested world, you have start exterminating somewhere....