If I were Sonalyst I would make a DW expansion

[Castout]

You know DW is a game without competition now and in the near future.

Despite its rather obsolete graphics(yet sufficient) it is a FANTASTIC game of naval warfare with a strong technical simulation pull.

It's been 4 years and I still have it on my computer and am still playing it from time to time.

Now I can't help feeling that a couple more playable platforms plus updated 3D models for some of the AI only platforms will make this game really really much more tempting.

For example adding the Duke FF which is the British OHP equivalent, the Russian OHP equivalent which I think is the Krivak FF and more diesel subs both allies and red like the Australian Collins class, The German Type 212(Italian, German, etc) and the Russian new Lada class SSK plus the Nimrod maritime reconnaisance and ASW patrol aircraft, the Tu-95 bear maritime patrol and ASW plane. Can you just imagine the appeal?
A more ambitious expansion perhpas could include the Oscar II and Typhon and the Ohio, Trafalgar as playable complete with launchable nuclear ballistic missiles.
I'm sick of stupid dumb games that offers nothing but wowing graphics. DW like its predecessor SC is one of the very few smarter game out there.

I really can't see why this game is commercially failing. Perhaps an expansion which bring more playable platforms would make this game much more appealing.

I know about Reinforce alert mod or the Alfa Tau mod which add numerous playable platforms using preexisting interface but it's just not the same.

I'm sorry if this thread bother you as it seems that there have been many other similar threads asking/hoping for a DW expansion but I need to get this off my chest. And I know the income from PC gaming may not be sufficiently large to entice Sonalyst to commit its resources away from government project but this game rocks.

I would buy DW+expansion even if it costs me US$50.00. Just get it as bug free as possible. And as realistically as possible. I would even buy it at US$100.00 like SB Pro PE but get it done right.

Now I feel somewhat better having gotten this off my chest.

[Frame57]

Simulation "games" have always performed less in sales than your typical computer game. They take time to learn for one. At least we are doing better than the train simulator that is out there.

[Molon Labe]

FWIW, I would easily pay $100-plus for a simulation that was complete when it ships. I don't even care what genre--naval, flight, tank, tactical, operational, strategic--whatever! All features implemented, all major bugs squashed (I'm OK with it needing a patch or two), stable, and with a dynamic campaign engine. The closest thing I can think of to that standard is F4AF, but that's a sim engine that's something like 10 years old!

I really am at a loss to understand how the sim market failed so badly. The PC had so much potential and it's been wasted on FPSs.

Edit: OK, maybe not so much tank sims, gotta stay closer to the naval side of things

[Dr.Sid]

Hm .. so I should rethink making my sim free ? :rotfl:
Just kidding ..

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by Castout

...............

I'm sorry if this thread bother you as it seems that there have been many other similar threads asking/hoping for a DW expansion but I need to get this off my chest. And I know the income from PC gaming may not be sufficiently large to entice Sonalyst to commit its resources away from government project but this game rocks.

.................

Ditto. I agree with much of what your wrote here Castout. I've written a couple of threads expressing the same type of frustrations. DW is a truly great game, and a long time resident on my hard drive since it's been released. I still play it very frequently. I see a major blow to modern naval simming if Sonalysts abandons commercial gaming projects. I don't see anybody else sufficiently filling the void.

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

I really am at a loss to understand how the sim market failed so badly. The PC had so much potential and it's been wasted on FPSs.

In regards to FPS's, I don't know how people haven't gotten sick of those games.

[FIREWALL]

Just curious.

Did Sonalyst promise any future upgrades or expansions when it first released DW or afterwards ?

Please correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC they pumped out this game when goverment contracts were a little on the slim side.

Now that their back at work .... well you know the answer to that.

[MBot]

What is interesting is that Sub Command did actualy quite well. I think someone from Sonalysts said once that EA as a puplisher helped SC quite a bit to penetrate the marked and sell good. For DW they lacked such a strong publisher. I bet with a big name behind it, perhaps even the revival of the Jane's brand, a modern naval sim would do ok even today. The problem is just that no big publisher will go for it. Not because it wont make profit, but because they can make more profit with more mainstream game (which is also understandable).

Personaly I would gladly pay big $ for DW addon. Altough now I would actualy lean more to a successor for DW. The 688(i) is in dire need for a remake, it still has the station graphics from Sub Command and the same functionality as the old 688(I) H/K.

A "Jane's 688(I) Hunter/Killer II", now that would be my dream

[Molon Labe]

As far as the simulation goes, DW is leaps and bounds ahead of 688I. But, 688I was much better of a product for it's time because it was a complete package--and I think the Jane's brand probably helped with that. The little things matter, I think, and it puts a polish on the product that makes it look professional, and thus, feels more immersive. While I wouldn't want to go back to a single-platform only linear-campaign sim, I'd definitely like to see a modern sim that is as good today as 688(I) was when it was released.

[Dr.Sid]

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

Just curious.

Did Sonalyst promise any future upgrades or expansions when it first released DW or afterwards ?

Please correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC they pumped out this game when goverment contracts were a little on the slim side.

Now that their back at work .... well you know the answer to that.

You're correct (AFAIK). They simply vanished without a word, and we only know from other sources that they got some juicy gov project.

[Hitman]

Adding new platforms (AI and controllable) has been something that modders have been able to do for a long time, just Sonalysts did not give permission and that was the end of the story (As far as subsim.com is concerned), but since it is apparently possible, I would like to know what would think Sonalysts of a proposal to make an authorized commercial add-on or expansion, featuring all those new platforms plus proper new interfaces :hmm:

May be a deal could be worked out with SA to provide us some of their editing tools (Not necessarily full access to the game code, which is a sensible area) and allow us doing the job properly, and then sell the expansion only via internet through subsim.com, giving them the share in the benefits previously arranged.

A LWAMI wrapped up with new platforms and matching interfaces would be a best seller around here

[OneShot]

As far as new platforms go personally I would go for something really new and not something we already have just under a different name. Meaning the adding of a SSBN (or an SSB for the really adventurous), maybe a Tico or Arleigh Burke or even a FPBG (for those who like it smaller). Just adding another FFG or MPA or even a SSN just isnt worth it in my eyes ... the only benefits from that would be to make missions from a different viewpoint but with the same tasks we have now and the fact that people could play a unit from their own countrys navy. Those two reasons aren't enough (for me).

If you wanna improve DW and take it a step farther you need truly new platforms but doing that would involve a lot of work on the code to straighten out for example the aerodynamics and radar model next to other issues (otherwise a Tico for starters would be quite useless).

I can even live with the graphics of DW because the important stuff ... the stations look quite good ... the only thing thats below par is the 3D stuff and thats something I seldom look anyway, so thats only a nice to have (an improvement of it) instead of a must have as it seems to be for some people.

@Hitman : AFAIK right from the start people offered to sign all sorts of legal stuff to be able to get their hands on some of the tools and do the stuff you suggest or even simply hand over the things that have been done with the existing tools ... like the LwAmi Mod. But SCS wont go for it ... Jamie explained that in length somewhen long ago and the gist of it was that the legal ramifications and possible trouble would just be to great to make it a worthwhile endeavour (from SCS point of view). So unless SCS has reconsidered its position (and I dont think so) this - unfortunatly - wont happen.

[MBot]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

As far as the simulation goes, DW is leaps and bounds ahead of 688I. But, 688I was much better of a product for it's time because it was a complete package--and I think the Jane's brand probably helped with that. The little things matter, I think, and it puts a polish on the product that makes it look professional, and thus, feels more immersive. While I wouldn't want to go back to a single-platform only linear-campaign sim, I'd definitely like to see a modern sim that is as good today as 688(I) was when it was released.

I agree that 688(I) H/K was a much better, completer product for its time than DW. I loved it so much

In terms physics DW is a lot more advanced than H/K, but in terms of user interface it stayed almost the same. The Los Angeles has still the exact same fuctionalities available as per 1996. I think only the sail view was added in DW. The abilities to control the sub or manipulate the sonar stayed exactly the same. The fact that fire control stayed the same is a real pity. In my opinion this has always be the weakest point of the series. It starts with weapon-show-truth (which for a sim of this calliber is especially hard to take), and goes to stuff like launch parameters, wire guidance or Harpoon plans for subs. I think Fast Attack did a lot better job in that regard.

That is why I would like to see a remake of the subs, first of all the Los Angeles, so much. If it would be only one platfrom in the initial release, I could live with it. Means more resources left for other stuff.

[Fish]

I think with Jamie Carlson we lost our support at Sonalysts.

[Dr.Sid]

I think we lost it even before, but he was kind to mask it. Maybe they just didn't like the 'computer games company' sticker.
Even DW seem surprisingly unfinished in some aspects. Most things it does well are from previous games.

[Frame57]

I agree with Molon, I would pay that and more for a a good subsim (these are good but can be much better). Are you paying attention EA/Sonalysts????