Sub Passing in the Channel!

Commander Gizmo · 10-23-08, 04:05 AM

On my way back to port via the channel in October '39 I was running decks awash in my VII-B avoiding all the patrols at ahead full when my watch crew cries out, "Submarine spotted!" Not what you usually hear in the channel! This is the first time I've run into another sub risking the dangers with me.

The bad news is that I just evaded an elco and a couple armed trawlers. Since he's got his deck gun manned, I don't think he's planning on diving when he sees 'em. I tried to flag him down, but his watch crew was taking a nap.

Picture has been brightened for viewing. Dang those OLC nights are dark!

Graf Paper · 10-23-08, 04:24 AM

You probably should have done them a favor and radioed back to base with the KIA report for those poor slobs.

Or else turned about and followed that u-boat to help them engage those trawlers and the Elco. It might have proven to be an interesting battle, that boat tangling with the enemy while you circled from a distance and pounded them with your own deck gun (assuming you were heading home and out of torpedoes).

That early in the war, your boldness might have earned a few medals for your crew.

Red Heat · 10-23-08, 06:35 AM

This is a VII-B!?

Where you get that deck gun...its better to capture a BB and upgrate her guns in a U-boat...

Jimbuna · 10-23-08, 10:24 AM

Being an AI....if he comes across the Elco et al, a surface engagement would definitely occur

Commander Gizmo · 10-23-08, 12:20 PM

I actually did follow him for a while, but the trawlers and elco were no where to be seen. I eventually turned back for port since my fuel and ammo were boath running pretty low.

Side note: I really do think those elco machine guns are a bit overpowered. I can survive hits from a trawler's shells better than those darn machine guns since they rack up damage so fast and accurately compared to the deck guns.

Graf Paper · 10-23-08, 03:03 PM

Those Elcos are tough customers, hard to kill and they pack a real punch with that machine gun.

The most damage I've ever taken in a suface engagement was from an Elco. I suppose rate of fire makes up for the smaller caliber of their machine gun. Lots of little hits in a few seconds add up, I suppose.

That's why, if I ever find myself tangling with any similarly armed vessel, I let my crew handle the deck gun while I pepper the enemy with the flak gun, aiming for their gunners and crew.

Commander Gizmo · 10-23-08, 05:23 PM

I did engage one on earlier this partol (which I finshed last night). I saw him racing towards the life boats from my last target and fired off two deck gun rounds at 3500 meters before diving. I missed both shots, one by only a few feet. He hit me with about 5 'dings' agains my hull as I dove for 3% hull damage. That is one powerful low caliber round!

Erich dem Roten · 10-23-08, 05:44 PM

I forget who said it or what topic it was in, but it was mentioned that machine guns were given such power to force you to stay below the surface. Historically submarines did not battle it out gun-to-gun with surface ships and the damage penalty is there to reflect that.

Not that it isn't fun, I used to love machine-gunning Elco's.

Graf Paper · 10-23-08, 05:48 PM

Well, when you consider that U-Boats have no armor and those Elcos are firing AP rounds in those machine guns, it's no wonder they can make your boat into swiss cheese in a big hurry.

But I do agree that the guns on the Elco should be toned down a bit on the damage meter. A direct hit from a DDs guns do less damage than a strafing pass from the Elco.

I ought to know. I survived five hits from a DD's guns, at close range, with less severe damage (not by much but still less). The Elco did similar damage with just its machine gun in half the time!

And using damage penalties or other game mechanics to enforce historical SOP for u-boats is just lame.

I'd say it would be wise for a kaleun to avoid unnecessary surface combat simply to avoid the enemy unit radioing your position for the Hunters.

Giving small craft super-weapons to discourage reckless kaleuns violates the entire spirit of a game world that was designed and intended to allow the player to take any action or go any place they wished. Such freedom does indeed mean a player might not play "by the rules", according to the historical accuracy worshippers, but that's no worse than trashing history where small craft armaments are concerned.

Commander Gizmo · 10-23-08, 05:48 PM

I do find it strange that out of all the ships I meet, the only one that makes me want to dive as soon as I see it is the tiny Elco, who desn't even use his biggest weapon: Torpedos.

Task Force · 10-23-08, 06:06 PM

Ive had my hull ripped up in seconds in a second carear I was messing with by one of those suckers.

They are way to overpowered, its like there shells are realy small Distroyer shells.

Graf Paper · 10-23-08, 06:24 PM

Yeah, I'm beginning to favor the idea of a "Real Arms" mod to make those small caliber weapons more realisitic in their damage capabilities.

If a kaleun wants to get his jollies beating up on small patrol craft, then I say he should be free to do so if he's willing to take the risk of having hunter-killers and Catalinas in his lap.

Scape · 10-24-08, 04:12 AM

If GWX 3.0 includes a first person shooter you could have boarding parties!

Jimbuna · 10-24-08, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graf Paper

Yeah, I'm beginning to favor the idea of a "Real Arms" mod to make those small caliber weapons more realisitic in their damage capabilities.

If a kaleun wants to get his jollies beating up on small patrol craft, then I say he should be free to do so if he's willing to take the risk of having hunter-killers and Catalinas in his lap.

Any watering down or beefing up of a gun is carried out for every gun of that calibre....regardless of whichever side uses the equipment.

eg. raising/lowering the hitting power of a 20mm would do so for every 20mm in the game.

Graf Paper · 10-24-08, 05:27 AM

What about creating a new gun category to cover the guns on the Elco?

Or is that yet another hard-coded limit?

Not quite the same as cloning a ship or plane?

10-23-08, 04:05 AM	#1
Commander Gizmo Watch Officer Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 339 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 4	Sub Passing in the Channel! On my way back to port via the channel in October '39 I was running decks awash in my VII-B avoiding all the patrols at ahead full when my watch crew cries out, "Submarine spotted!" Not what you usually hear in the channel! This is the first time I've run into another sub risking the dangers with me. The bad news is that I just evaded an elco and a couple armed trawlers. Since he's got his deck gun manned, I don't think he's planning on diving when he sees 'em. I tried to flag him down, but his watch crew was taking a nap. Picture has been brightened for viewing. Dang those OLC nights are dark!

10-23-08, 04:24 AM	#2
Graf Paper Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Pacific Northwest United States Posts: 1,146 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 2	You probably should have done them a favor and radioed back to base with the KIA report for those poor slobs. Or else turned about and followed that u-boat to help them engage those trawlers and the Elco. It might have proven to be an interesting battle, that boat tangling with the enemy while you circled from a distance and pounded them with your own deck gun (assuming you were heading home and out of torpedoes). That early in the war, your boldness might have earned a few medals for your crew. __________________ Still sailing the high seas, hunting convoys with those who join me.

10-23-08, 06:35 AM	#3
Red Heat Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Portugal Posts: 1,093 Downloads: 267 Uploads: 0	This is a VII-B!? Where you get that deck gun...its better to capture a BB and upgrate her guns in a U-boat... __________________ "There is three kinds of man: the living, the death, and those who are at Sea." Plato

10-23-08, 10:24 AM	#4
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,473 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Being an AI....if he comes across the Elco et al, a surface engagement would definitely occur __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

10-23-08, 03:03 PM	#6
Graf Paper Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Pacific Northwest United States Posts: 1,146 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 2	Those Elcos are tough customers, hard to kill and they pack a real punch with that machine gun. The most damage I've ever taken in a suface engagement was from an Elco. I suppose rate of fire makes up for the smaller caliber of their machine gun. Lots of little hits in a few seconds add up, I suppose. That's why, if I ever find myself tangling with any similarly armed vessel, I let my crew handle the deck gun while I pepper the enemy with the flak gun, aiming for their gunners and crew. __________________ Still sailing the high seas, hunting convoys with those who join me.

10-23-08, 12:20 PM	#5
Commander Gizmo Watch Officer Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 339 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 4	I actually did follow him for a while, but the trawlers and elco were no where to be seen. I eventually turned back for port since my fuel and ammo were boath running pretty low. Side note: I really do think those elco machine guns are a bit overpowered. I can survive hits from a trawler's shells better than those darn machine guns since they rack up damage so fast and accurately compared to the deck guns.

10-23-08, 05:23 PM	#7
Commander Gizmo Watch Officer Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 339 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 4	I did engage one on earlier this partol (which I finshed last night). I saw him racing towards the life boats from my last target and fired off two deck gun rounds at 3500 meters before diving. I missed both shots, one by only a few feet. He hit me with about 5 'dings' agains my hull as I dove for 3% hull damage. That is one powerful low caliber round!

10-23-08, 05:44 PM	#8
Erich dem Roten Electrician's Mate Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Connecticut Posts: 134 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	I forget who said it or what topic it was in, but it was mentioned that machine guns were given such power to force you to stay below the surface. Historically submarines did not battle it out gun-to-gun with surface ships and the damage penalty is there to reflect that. Not that it isn't fun, I used to love machine-gunning Elco's. __________________

10-23-08, 05:48 PM	#9
Graf Paper Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Pacific Northwest United States Posts: 1,146 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 2	Well, when you consider that U-Boats have no armor and those Elcos are firing AP rounds in those machine guns, it's no wonder they can make your boat into swiss cheese in a big hurry. But I do agree that the guns on the Elco should be toned down a bit on the damage meter. A direct hit from a DDs guns do less damage than a strafing pass from the Elco. I ought to know. I survived five hits from a DD's guns, at close range, with less severe damage (not by much but still less). The Elco did similar damage with just its machine gun in half the time! And using damage penalties or other game mechanics to enforce historical SOP for u-boats is just lame. I'd say it would be wise for a kaleun to avoid unnecessary surface combat simply to avoid the enemy unit radioing your position for the Hunters. Giving small craft super-weapons to discourage reckless kaleuns violates the entire spirit of a game world that was designed and intended to allow the player to take any action or go any place they wished. Such freedom does indeed mean a player might not play "by the rules", according to the historical accuracy worshippers, but that's no worse than trashing history where small craft armaments are concerned. __________________ Still sailing the high seas, hunting convoys with those who join me.

10-23-08, 06:06 PM	#11
Task Force Rear Admiral Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: SPACE!!!! Posts: 10,142 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Ive had my hull ripped up in seconds in a second carear I was messing with by one of those suckers. They are way to overpowered, its like there shells are realy small Distroyer shells. __________________ Task Force industries "Taking control of the world, one mind at a time"

10-23-08, 06:24 PM	#12
Graf Paper Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Pacific Northwest United States Posts: 1,146 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 2	Yeah, I'm beginning to favor the idea of a "Real Arms" mod to make those small caliber weapons more realisitic in their damage capabilities. If a kaleun wants to get his jollies beating up on small patrol craft, then I say he should be free to do so if he's willing to take the risk of having hunter-killers and Catalinas in his lap. __________________ Still sailing the high seas, hunting convoys with those who join me.

10-24-08, 04:12 AM	#13
Scape Gunner Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kanada Posts: 92 Downloads: 57 Uploads: 0	If GWX 3.0 includes a first person shooter you could have boarding parties!

10-24-08, 05:27 AM	#15
Graf Paper Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Pacific Northwest United States Posts: 1,146 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 2	What about creating a new gun category to cover the guns on the Elco? Or is that yet another hard-coded limit? Not quite the same as cloning a ship or plane? __________________ Still sailing the high seas, hunting convoys with those who join me.