Ceramic hull subs?

Frame57 · 07-06-08, 01:46 PM

I remember a Cheif once talking about the navy experimenting with what he called "Glass" for future use in making hulls for subs. At that time I thought how cool that would be because then I could see stuff. But I think he was referring to ceramic. Now I am reading a book by Joe Buff, where these subs have ceramic hulls and can acheive tremndous depths. So I was wondering if any one else heard of theis and what your opinion of it might be?

SUBMAN1 · 07-06-08, 01:48 PM

Scary is my opinion.

Ceramics break, they don't bend. I would prefer to have something that can give a little when I have many tons of ocean that might want to come in on me!

Just my 2 cents.

-S

Raptor1 · 07-06-08, 01:49 PM

I have not heard of this, but I do know that the hull of the deepest diving submarines (The Alfas and the K-278 Komsomolets (Mike)) is made out of a titanium alloy

SUBMAN1 · 07-06-08, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor1

I have not heard of this, but I do know that the hulls of the deepest diving submarines (The Alfas and the K-278 Komsomolets (Mike)) is made out of a titanium alloy

I'll take titanium any day!

-S

Raptor1 · 07-06-08, 01:53 PM

Me too

Ceramic has the unfortunate problem of being highly brittle, which is why it would perform rather poorly under stress (IE, in the bottom of the Ocean)...me thinks...

Yahoshua · 07-06-08, 01:59 PM

However, it is worth noting that ceramic materials is a wonderful absorbing medium against shocks.

Does anyone here know if ceramics have sound-absorbing qualities?

Raptor1 · 07-06-08, 02:02 PM

I don't know if it has any sound-absorbing qualities, but if it does, it could theoretically be used to coat the outer skin of a submarine in a shallow-depth infiltration mission, trading depth for stealth, right?

Hakahura · 07-06-08, 03:21 PM

I would suggest if this technology is being pursued then they will have moved onto "Cermets".

Remember ceramics have been used in gas turbine engines for some years.
Ceramics can be very strong in both compresion and tension and have excellent "Creep" properties.

But this is old hat in materials technology now. One possible future is Cermets.

A composite structure composed of ceramic around a metal matrix at the molecular level.

SUBMAN1 · 07-06-08, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakahura

I would suggest if this technology is being pursued then they will have moved onto "Cermets".

Remember ceramics have been used in gas turbine engines for some years.
Ceramics can be very strong in both compresion and tension and have excellent "Creep" properties.

But this is old hat in materials technology now. One possible future is Cermets.

A composite structure composed of ceramic around a metal matrix at the molecular level.

I hate to break it to ya, but that sounds like a box of sinking rocks!

-S

Hakahura · 07-06-08, 03:34 PM

Also if I remember correctly both ceramics and cermets are used in the construction of Chobham Armor.
Developed in the UK and used on Challenger and Abrahms Main Battle Tanks. Pretty tough stuff eh?

Raptor1 · 07-06-08, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakahura

Also if I remember correctly both ceramics and cermets are used in the construction of Chobham Armor.
Developed in the UK and used on Challenger and Abrahms Main Battle Tanks. Pretty tough stuff eh?

A tank's armor and a sub's hull need to face very different things

Can it handle the stress of deep water?

Hakahura · 07-06-08, 03:41 PM

No idea at all.
Just trying to illustrate how some materials turn up in some pretty incredible places.

Shouldn't be to hard to calculate though if you've a mind for maths and can get hold of some of the stats for both cermets and very high grade steel.

My interest is piqued. I may have to do some reading.

Raptor1 · 07-06-08, 03:44 PM

It might be possible, It might not...

I've never heard the term "Cermet" before, I'll search around and see if I can find any stats on it

SUBMAN1 · 07-06-08, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakahura

Also if I remember correctly both ceramics and cermets are used in the construction of Chobham Armor.
Developed in the UK and used on Challenger and Abrahms Main Battle Tanks. Pretty tough stuff eh?

For something designed to float, with a controlled sink rate, not so much!

:p The keyword was 'controlled' back there!

Next you are going to push cement aircraft! Hahahaha!

-S

Raptor1 · 07-06-08, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUBMAN1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakahura

Also if I remember correctly both ceramics and cermets are used in the construction of Chobham Armor.
Developed in the UK and used on Challenger and Abrahms Main Battle Tanks. Pretty tough stuff eh?

For something designed to float, with a controlled sink rate, not so much!

:p The keyword was 'controlled' back there!

Next you are going to push cement aircraft! Hahahaha!

-S

Cement?

07-06-08, 01:46 PM	#1
Frame57 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2008 Location: 1300 feet on the crapper Posts: 1,860 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Ceramic hull subs? I remember a Cheif once talking about the navy experimenting with what he called "Glass" for future use in making hulls for subs. At that time I thought how cool that would be because then I could see stuff. But I think he was referring to ceramic. Now I am reading a book by Joe Buff, where these subs have ceramic hulls and can acheive tremndous depths. So I was wondering if any one else heard of theis and what your opinion of it might be?

07-06-08, 01:48 PM	#2
SUBMAN1 Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11,866 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Scary is my opinion. Ceramics break, they don't bend. I would prefer to have something that can give a little when I have many tons of ocean that might want to come in on me! Just my 2 cents. -S __________________

07-06-08, 01:49 PM	#3
Raptor1 Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Stavka Posts: 8,211 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	I have not heard of this, but I do know that the hull of the deepest diving submarines (The Alfas and the K-278 Komsomolets (Mike)) is made out of a titanium alloy __________________ Current Eastern Front status: Probable Victory

07-06-08, 01:53 PM	#5
Raptor1 Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Stavka Posts: 8,211 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Me too Ceramic has the unfortunate problem of being highly brittle, which is why it would perform rather poorly under stress (IE, in the bottom of the Ocean)...me thinks... __________________ Current Eastern Front status: Probable Victory

07-06-08, 01:59 PM	#6
Yahoshua The Old Man Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,493 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	However, it is worth noting that ceramic materials is a wonderful absorbing medium against shocks. Does anyone here know if ceramics have sound-absorbing qualities? __________________ Science is the organized unpredictability that strives not to set limits to mans' capabilities, but is the engine by which the limits of mans' understanding is defined-Yahoshua

07-06-08, 02:02 PM	#7
Raptor1 Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Stavka Posts: 8,211 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	I don't know if it has any sound-absorbing qualities, but if it does, it could theoretically be used to coat the outer skin of a submarine in a shallow-depth infiltration mission, trading depth for stealth, right? __________________ Current Eastern Front status: Probable Victory

07-06-08, 03:21 PM	#8
Hakahura Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland Posts: 785 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I would suggest if this technology is being pursued then they will have moved onto "Cermets". Remember ceramics have been used in gas turbine engines for some years. Ceramics can be very strong in both compresion and tension and have excellent "Creep" properties. But this is old hat in materials technology now. One possible future is Cermets. A composite structure composed of ceramic around a metal matrix at the molecular level. __________________ Sir Humphey Appleby, GCB, KBE, MVO and MA. Britain's Greatest Orator, well bar that Churchill fellow.

07-06-08, 03:34 PM	#10
Hakahura Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland Posts: 785 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Also if I remember correctly both ceramics and cermets are used in the construction of Chobham Armor. Developed in the UK and used on Challenger and Abrahms Main Battle Tanks. Pretty tough stuff eh? __________________ Sir Humphey Appleby, GCB, KBE, MVO and MA. Britain's Greatest Orator, well bar that Churchill fellow.

07-06-08, 03:41 PM	#12
Hakahura Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland Posts: 785 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	No idea at all. Just trying to illustrate how some materials turn up in some pretty incredible places. Shouldn't be to hard to calculate though if you've a mind for maths and can get hold of some of the stats for both cermets and very high grade steel. My interest is piqued. I may have to do some reading. __________________ Sir Humphey Appleby, GCB, KBE, MVO and MA. Britain's Greatest Orator, well bar that Churchill fellow.

07-06-08, 03:44 PM	#13
Raptor1 Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Stavka Posts: 8,211 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	It might be possible, It might not... I've never heard the term "Cermet" before, I'll search around and see if I can find any stats on it __________________ Current Eastern Front status: Probable Victory