The Russian bluff: Russian military in decline

[Skybird]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...562073,00.html

Very good read (though Subsim's Kapitan will not like it )

[MothBalls]

Maybe the cold war ended but the arms race never did. As they said in the article, Russia has more money to spend because of oil. I think if they had that money back then, the cold war would have never ended. Regan's strategy for winning the cold war was spending them into oblivion and it worked. Now it won't.

There are times when I read the headlines about all the crap happening all over the world and I wonder..... was it always like this? Is it any different now because we have a camera in everyone's face and can broadcast it live 7/24 to the entire planet and we just get to see more of it?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by MothBalls

Maybe the cold war ended but the arms race never did. As they said in the article, Russia has more money to spend because of oil. I think if they had that money back then, the cold war would have never ended. Regan's strategy for winning the cold war was spending them into oblivion and it worked. Now it won't.

There are times when I read the headlines about all the crap happening all over the world and I wonder..... was it always like this? Is it any different now because we have a camera in everyone's face and can broadcast it live 7/24 to the entire planet and we just get to see more of it?

what you call "the crap" is being conducted by the "crappers" with greater efficiency due to the globe having become a village.

I wonder what the russians spend so much money - but produce only so small a handful of fighters, and tanks, as the article said. where is all the money going? They should be on their way to become an international top notch army again, instead they are prjected to decline and become a mediocre medium-size army by european standards, being outclassed by Turkey.

Something still stinks in their production and development cycle.

[rifleman13]

Originally Posted by Skybird

where is all the money going?

Umm... corruption?

[peterloo]

Russian has sufficient money to allow rampant corruption to take place? I don't think so

If they had so much money, they wouldn't be selling technology and arms everywhere, and China wouldn't get so much Russian armaments (although I feel pound of the recent China improvements in arms and other aspects)

The lack of money compounded by the lowered priority of national defence after Cold War, I think, is the major reason why Russian Military strength declined these days, as they have to sell stuffs to fuel their money usage, and they cannot take care of so much equipments and soldiers, either. Some show off actions, like having bomber patrols in the sky (if I'm right), also increased unnecessary military expenditure

If you say a large part of money is missing, I'd say its because of some newer but later canceled projects, which wasted money without any material gain

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by peterloo

Russian has sufficient money to allow rampant corruption to take place? I don't think so

If they had so much money, they wouldn't be selling technology and arms everywhere, and China wouldn't get so much Russian armaments (although I feel pound of the recent China improvements in arms and other aspects)

The lack of money compounded by the lowered priority of national defence after Cold War, I think, is the major reason why Russian Military strength declined these days, as they have to sell stuffs to fuel their money usage, and they cannot take care of so much equipments and soldiers, either. Some show off actions, like having bomber patrols in the sky (if I'm right), also increased unnecessary military expenditure

If you say a large part of money is missing, I'd say its because of some newer but later canceled projects, which wasted money without any material gain

Actually their military spenings are in steep rise, Peterloo. It is due to their leading role as global gas producer, and their selling of oil. that is what we are wondering about. Compared to the steep increase in military spending, the growing of their military is almost non-existent, and the size of their forces are in decline wiothout compensating that with greater quality. the article lists some examples of projects that failed or went terribly wrong. And then: corruption, as Rifleman probably very correctly assumed.

the Russians are not the only majhor popwer selling arms, btw. european nations, the US, India and China do the same, the latter two just not the the western nations anymore.

We europeans just lease the Russians' transport aircraft.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I wonder what the russians spend so much money - but produce only so small a handful of fighters, and tanks, as the article said. where is all the money going? They should be on their way to become an international top notch army again, instead they are prjected to decline and become a mediocre medium-size army by european standards, being outclassed by Turkey.

Something still stinks in their production and development cycle.

1) Base costs. US$35 billion or so, even assuming the aid of a large black budget, is not exactly ample when you have a ~400,000 man army (as opposed to ~100,000 in Britain with a nominally similar sized budget), ~200,000 man Air Force and a ~150,000 Navy. Since they are moving around more these days, it is natural that they are having difficulty squeezing out money to buy many new weapons.

2) R&D: The Russian arms industry is among the broadest in the world, which means a lot of money gets sunk into research. When a European country doesn't build a RWR or whatever, they buy it from their neighboring European country. Russia develops one. This kind of thing means that for a similar investment into military-related affairs, an European country can build more than Russia, all else being equal.