a radical re think (brits cast your votes)

[Kapitan]

Ok i posted two articles on a forum that i visit about cars (rover in particular) its about the current state of road users thier behaviour what ive learnt from the driving industry and also about other people and thier manner towards the road.

Now we all know too well that accidents happen most caused by inexperianced over confident drivers and people who are to busy holding a confrence on thier phone while driving.

Ever gone down a road and though wow that guy hes a twit pulling infront of me like that ? exactly what i am getting at.

The current british car test is insuffiecent for the modern and more powerful cars these days i often sit on a main road at 60mph watching the office executive going past at 110mph + or that boy racer racing that cosworth (again), and then it befalls to the highways agency fire fighters and traffic police to pick up the shatterd remains when things do go wrong.

ok a bit behind why our speed limit is set to 70mph:

Ok ive sat 3 diffrent advanced driving courses pass plus blue light and also smith system (PCV PSV HGV) the reason our limit is set at 70mph is because of our eye lead time, we have a 3 degree zone of perfect vision infront of us and a 180 degree view around.

in a car your eye lead time is only 3 seconds and at 70mph 3 seconds is sutible to brake and avoid a collision hence "only a fool brakes the 2 second rule" when i did the HGV PCV PSV advanced course my eye lead time had to be tweaked beyond the natural 3 second times.

My eye lead time had to be extended above 15 seconds (my average time was 24 seconds) in america most states if not all have a maximum 65mph limit on all highways

driving at 90+mph your situational awareness around you decreases by 40% which means you are more prone to miss a hazard and your more likely to cause an accident (we all know the idiots who pull out infront of us intot he fast lane when we are doing 100+),

also the roads are not sutible in many places to be doing excessive speed a blow out at 65mph can flip a car at 90+ it would smash it to bits.

Recently the unrestricted speed on german autobahns have been taken off they are now restricted to 220KMH however thier ruling was any car traveling above 220kmh the driver regardless if another vehicle pulled in front if he had an accident he was to blame, and most cases were fatalities.

with most high end cars doing 300kmh your awareness of whats around you decreases 95% meaning it doesnt even take a split second and your dead.

thats what i learnt in all my courses.


Now after learning all that in a day i add i found it disturbing to note when i was doing my commentry for my bus advanced driving how much i acctually missed because i was so focused on whats ahead rather than whats coming up my side or behind or even slightly to one side.

my recomendation for a radical over haul for the humble driving test here begins:

I think personally, the test we have here is far too easy theres no classroom based tuition before the driver hits the road (germany you must do at least 10hours in a classroom before you can go out on a road).

many people dont even know what the road signs or markings mean, instructors themselves ever say to thier students we train you to pass a test only the rest is up to you so of course we will get that dumb blonde doing her makeup in the rear view and the boy racerwith his pounding stero doing 95 down the hard shoulder.

My insurnace company and indeed my employers regard me and the other drivers as "professional" i had 16 hours tution before i could even be let at the controls of a bus even though i had a HGV already.

My view on driving tests and lessons should be as follows:

Every student learning to drive no matter what catagory they want should sit through at least 16 to 18 hours of class room training before they can even sit and learn in a car.

They must pass the theory before even getting behind the wheel this would be to ensure they know what an urban clear way is what a bus stop acctually means and what it is used for ect ect.

The should be taken for thier first 8 hours driving on a specified track to see how a car operates and handles so they can get to grips with correct speed signaling and monoueverability and also how not to panic in a sticky situation.

Then they should move onto the roads excluding motorways and learn the roads like so

after that they then should have to complete all weather handeling taking a car around a skid pan (hey its fun !) how not to brake in harsh conditions and how to compensate for other things on the road (you wont get every eventuality but hey its more than what they are getting now)

then they are ready for phase one test should they pass a one hour test (15mins longer than the test is now) they are certified to drive vehicles upto a certain CC like on a motorbike lets say a 1400cc so rover 414i but they still cannot be allowed onto a motorway yet.

so they must complete a phase 2 which would be an advanced course another two hour test on motorway driving the final half hour commentating on the road its conditions traffic hazards and what they are doing.

After phase two they can then drive upto a 2000cc car should they go for my phase 3 training then they would be unlimited.

Phase 3 (optional) would be a 4 hour test with a break on all diffrent roads with full commentry they would then be allowed to drive any sized car on the road.

Licences should be restricted so they must take another test to do a 3.5ton van (that comes with the car licence atm) 7.5ton a HGV2 and PCV PSV then the ultimate HGV1 (HGV1 give you all your catagories with the inclusion of trailers with unlimited wieght)


Now for those who done all that to make them aware that now you got a licence you got to work to keep it they keep the 6 points for 2 years scheme
and if any driver in those 2 years is caught speeding driving without due care and attention dangerous driving ect then they would warrent a 3 month to 24 month ban plus a re test and be restricted to only 1400cc cars for two years.

i think all that once people have done it once they wont want to do it again so the incentive to do 90 here is all but gone and also the boy racers who have all the skylines and cosworths would be less inclined to race as much fearing they could loose not only thier licence but thier car also.

i think that would make not only the insurance go down but also the amount of fatalities on our roads involving young drivers go down and also accidents go down.

im probably going to be blasted for my radical over hauling of a simple car test but the idiots who drive on our roads today and cause them accidents should they have the licence?

also forign nationals id accept some countries tests are better than ours id allow them to use thier licence in this country for 3 months before they had to take a british test however countries like egypt i would not allow (30meter forward and backwards hardly a test).

Should you fail your test three times you must re sit phase one again untill you are up to a standard to drive on the road.

[Hakahura]

Whilst a agree with some of your comments about the state of the UK's roads, I did some fishing about.

These are my conclusions

There are more vehicals on UK roads than ever before.
Deaths on UK roads have been slowly falling for over a decade.
The UK has a far lower accident rate than many other western nations.

So whilst the state of UK roads aren't that great, they ain't that bad either.

If you really want to improve driver awareness.....
Force all drivers to ride a motorbike for 1 year before letting them in a 4 wheel tin box.

[Thunder]

I'm inclined to agree with the motorcycle comment, but i can't see it getting passed.

Through riding bikes i find my situational awarness seems to be more acute that alot of other people, hell even as a passenger in a car i am reacting (even tho not able to do much) way before many drivers.
I think motorcycles have shaken my trust in other drivers so much that when they do something stupid, i am half expecting it and have defensive action already prepared.

[mrbeast]

Broadly I agree that there are increasing problems on UK roads, but as has been stated by Hakahura, compared to many developed countries our record is quite good.

Kapitan, I don't think I would go the the lengths that you propose but I think you make some very good points. I think many problems come from young, over-confident drivers in fast cars. Years ago it seemed that youngsters who passed their test had to make do with the family car (afraid of crashing it) or a slow banger (incapable of going very fast). These days there does seem to be a lot of kids with fast cars bought for them by their parents.

The numbers of drivers who have accidents weeks, days even hours after they pass their test are AFAIK quite high.

• So I think I would restrict young drivers possibly until they were 21 or the 2 year probation period if they were over 21 when they passed, to cars of only 1000cc and prohibit them from driving any car that was marketed as a sport or performance car (there are some that look the part even though they only have regular sized engines).
• I would also make motorway dring part of the test, perhaps a suplimental element that you access after passing the ordinary test, plus a night driving course should be added too. There is already a 'Pass Plus' scheme which rewards new drivers with an insurance discount if they take an hour long motorway course, maybe that could simply be made compulsory?
• I would restrict drivers up to the age of 21 from carriyng any more than one passenger to deter them from showing off to friends.
• Any speeding offence, or offence that includes a speeding element, committed during the two year probation period should result in immediate withdrawl of driving licence and a retest......not just endorsements added to the licence.

[Kapitan]

You make some good points, i will inform you the pass plus scheme in place isnt worth the paper its written on, ive had alot of companies go to me "whats that then" and the ones who do recognise it charge you extortionate rates anyway.

high performance an insurance company who specialise in young drivers with performance cars insurance coverage simply make me laugh.

They dont accept the pass plus scheme they quoted me £4019 fully comp on my rover Ti when i told them tesco would insure me at £748 fully comp with every bell and whistle they simply didnt believe it (till i emailed them my documents to rub it in) (i got £100 for that )

my friend who has been driving for 2 years but doesnt have a pass plus pays £1700 for a 1.2 corsa without all my driving certificates id be paying still less than that so how they work it all out is beyond me.

My Ti is a performance car it pushs out 200BHP and is capible of 145mph i pay £748 for it and thats cheap bear in mind im 20.

i think if you pass your test in the first 2 years should you have an accident that was deemed your fault you must be given a ban for 6 to 24 months (depending on severity) and take a re test.

The pass plus we have is useless you pay £150 on average for it and its worthless you do a 6 hour drive in all areas and your still not rewarded with much in the line of benifits and after 2 years it ceases to be valid.

The only real advanced driving certificate that is valid for life is the IAM (institue of advanced motorists) then you do see heavy reductions hence why my insurance is so cheap for me.

[Oberon]

You going into the buses Kap? first or Arriva?