Me, LWAMI or 1.04? / Can this be fixed?

[suBB]

Currently running LW/AMI / 1.04:

I’m designing a mission involving TU142-bear, capable of EW / ASUW / ASW, which is assigned to a tactic (random search). The bear is currently emitting and can’t be turned off.

But when air or surface are added to the opposing side, the bear ignores the assigned tactic and attempts to make a visual ID on the contact(s) I would rather the bear hold to the assigned tactic, as instructed. So, is this something that can be fixed? If so, possibly on the level of doctrine, where a doctrine can be modified / added to prevent the bear from doing so and hold the assigned tactic?

:hmm:My 1st hunch is he is reacting to the radar return and in doing so he is trying to make a visual. If anything, I’d rather have the radar off on the bear anyways, if possible. Map will be intended for MP, so I guess a separate doctrine would be great.

So, I’m just wondering, is this something on my end, which I don’t think it is…

Or

Does this have something to do with the LW/AMI mod…

Or

DW 1.04?

thanks

[Bill Nichols]

This is not a LWAMI issue, I've run into the same irritating behavior in vanilla DW. The only way I know of to make the aircraft ignore surface ships is to put the ships on the same side as the aircraft.

[Molon Labe]

If the contact is out of EMCON, the Bear will classify by ESM at a greater range...

It's not just air platforms that do this... every platform, even subs at shallow depths, will step on the gas when an unidentified platform is reported.

[suBB]

ok..

Thanks guys, I'm not very pleased at what I'm hearing right now and this is starting to smell like a work-around. I'm going to do some tests to see just how bad is bad.

The Joys of Editing....

Also, the opposing unit was in EMCON (playable FFG) and still the bear made a bee line for me.

thanks again

[suBB]

Well here it is…

Bear (emitting) tested w all tactics:

Only works for transit, then at the last waypoint, it stops working. Doesn’t work at all with the rest of the tactics.

Now here is the fun part…

Beechcraft(non emitting, opposing side):

Works for all tactics and will not ignore tactics to intercept. Honestly I only tested one tactic that the bear failed, and since it worked, I assume the rest for all.

Is there another red platform capable of buoys, yet does not emit? Probably not but it never hurts to ask.

[To be]

It is not that the beachcraft isn't emitting causes it to not attempt to classify, it is that the beachcraft has no weapons, so it doesn't ever attempt to attack (which would neccesitate identification). I hope you understand that, it is very poorly worded, but I can't really think of how to write it better offhand.

[suBB]

Originally Posted by To be

It is not that the beachcraft isn't emitting causes it to not attempt to classify, it is that the beachcraft has no weapons, so it doesn't ever attempt to attack (which would neccesitate identification). I hope you understand that, it is very poorly worded, but I can't really think of how to write it better offhand.

Even more interesting, based on this test case and actual scenario, is the fact that the bear isn’t loaded for ASUW either, only ASW. So in that regard the bear is weaponless as well. You can only choose one load out, not a mix. And what happens is the bear w ASW loadout flies directly towards a playable ffg in EMCON and does nothing, but get pwned by CIWS.

:hmm: That was my reason for saying that the ‘suicide run’ basically is an attempt to make visual ID based on radar return of a non-emitting contact. The solution is a strategic / tactical work-around, basically redefining how red taskforce can do without the bear & EW and remain just as effective if not better. The workaround also resolves possible issues in playability where blue surface were being engaged at time of spawn from over 100s of nm with ASMs in response to a linked contact. Now that option is available for both sides really, before it wasn't an option at all.

[Hawk66]

Originally Posted by suBB

:hmm: That was my reason for saying that the ‘suicide run’ basically is an attempt to make visual ID based on radar return of a non-emitting contact. The solution is a strategic / tactical work-around, basically redefining how red taskforce can do without the bear & EW and remain just as effective if not better. The workaround also resolves possible issues in playability where blue surface were being engaged at time of spawn from over 100s of nm with ASMs in response to a linked contact. Now that option is available for both sides really, before it wasn't an option at all.

I did some tests regarding 'crappy Air platform AI' in the past and created some mission-specific doctrine files. The problem is of course, that there isn't currently a tool which supports the user of your mission to swap between different doctrine files (like JSGME does it with LWAMI).

Perhaps mission specific doctrine files could support you in:

• switch on/off dynamically the radar or other sensors
• force the bear to turn away from specific platforms (to avoid 'suicide IDs attempts)

I've posted some doctrine snippets which make air to air combat more realistic:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=123401

In the past months I didn't have time to do further experiments but wanna get back to DW. If I remember it correctly I used for example the altitude/speed of the plane to 'communicate' between scripts and doctrine files. For example if I want to toggle radar on/off I set a very specific altitude for a short timeframe which is interpreted by the doctrine file.