VII vs. IX

[treblesum81]

Just kind of wondering what real difference there is between the two? I know one is bigger, has more range, and carries more torps, so why doesn't everyone use them? I also know that the type VII was the most prevelent model built ever, but that doesn't seem to be a limiting factor for SH3, so whats keeping people there?

Thanks,
Greg

[danoh]

The type VII is more manuverable, dives faster, and I believe the upgraded VIIC/41s have a deeper crush depth. So later in the game, your survivablity may be improved in a type VII.

However, the IX has much greater range and of course, more torpedoes, 4 bow and 2 stern tubes, and I think maybe better AA armament. Of course, sound strategy is to dive when planes appear, but I read on these boards planes show up suddenly later in the war and the best tactic is to go to flank speed, manuver wildly and try to shoot them down on their first pass, then dive so this could help.

[Tessa]

The type VII's have a smaller profile, smaller draft, and most importantly faster dive times. Once patrol planes start to fill the air dive time is critical so the planes can't drop their bombs directly on your stern. The IX's do have better AA capacity, but unless you've got an experienced gun team you'll end up with a bunch of body bags to fill.

The VII's are harder to detect with active sonar as their cross section is much smaller than the IX's. The IX's are easy targets for sonar and don't move around as fast. VII's are much more agile when it comes to using fast evasion moves to dodge dc's. Once you get below enough thermal layers it makes it harder for the escorts to get a correct depth setting as there's not much surface area for the sonar to hit compared to a IX. With the shallow draft VII's can penetrate into almost every harbor without ever having to surface, IX's may be able to get into the harbor but find themselves hitting the bottom in areas where there's sandbars.

I've always seen the VII's are boats that were designed to go out for shorter periods of time with a quick turnaround. Stalk a convoy or two, expend all your eels and then head for home. IX's are built for long patrols so a VII should finish about 2 in the same time for a IX to do 1. With the larger torpedo load it should average out to be the same.

And of course the bottom line is which kind you prefer to play.

[treblesum81]

So, aside from the size issue, its really a matter of where you want to do your hunting?

If you want to do ffar reaching patrols that take you to the south atlantic and later to america, you've got to do it in a type IX, but if you want to be on the front lines of the Europe war, you stick to the type VII?

Greg

[Phaedrus]

It's a case of where you want to hunt, and for how long (if you are using realistic fuel consumption).


But, in the later years, it comes down to survivability.


In my current career I started with an IXB - more torpedoes, and a 10cm gun packs a bigger punch than the 8.8 gun on the VII's.
It's ideal for early war when escorts aren't at their best, have no sonar, and the merchants are unarmed.

However, as the war progresses things get tough in the big boat.

Mid war I have taken to shooting the front four tubes, two torpedoes per target in a convoy, from about 2000 m and then immediately proceeding deep and directly away at silent running.
Take your two good merchants and then you can find another convoy some other time.

If you want to gun sling in the mid war years, you'll need a VII boat to survive convoy attacks.


It's mostly to do with your particular attack style, the locations you want to hunt, and how far along in the war you are.

Good luck.

[Zajcev]

The 10cm gun is not much better than 8cm. The 8cm gun gets 2x as much high explosive ammo.


In IX, you don't have to patrol where they tell you, just go anywhere you want, use all torpedoes and ask base for permission to return by radio. The only thing I like about IXD2 is torpedoes and AA (although late VII can have the same AA), but I hate everything else.

Switch boat when it gets too boring.

[Bosje]

Originally Posted by Zajcev

Switch boat when it gets too boring.

type VIIC from late '42 onwards does not get boring

[STEED]

The big IX boats are pure bloody French totty bait.

Ask jim, he's got a few around each arm.

[Jimbuna]

Sme things in life are never that certain

[Frank0001]

Auch, that burned my eyes....forever

[Dowly]

The difference between the two is 2.

[Tessa]

Originally Posted by Zajcev

The 10cm gun is not much better than 8cm. The 8cm gun gets 2x as much high explosive ammo.


In IX, you don't have to patrol where they tell you, just go anywhere you want, use all torpedoes and ask base for permission to return by radio. The only thing I like about IXD2 is torpedoes and AA (although late VII can have the same AA), but I hate everything else.

Switch boat when it gets too boring.

After the late portion of 41' and more and more of the the merchant ships become armed. Some get them sooner than the others, by 42' pretty much any merchant you come across is gonna have some sort of cannon or multiple machine guns mounted that gnaw away at your hull. I just take the deck gun off, makes the emergency dives a little bit fast (about a second); too bad you can't use the extra space created to store more torpedos.......:hmm:

[Faamecanic]

Originally Posted by Tessa

Once you get below enough thermal layers it makes it harder for the escorts to get a correct depth setting as there's not much surface area for the sonar to hit compared to a IX. .

Unless there has been a mod released that simulates thermal layers in SHIII, thermal layers are not represented in SH III by what I understand.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Faamecanic

Unless there has been a mod released that simulates thermal layers in SHIII, thermal layers are not represented in SH III by what I understand.

That is correct, but those using SH3 Commander have the advantage that sonar 'reach' is randomized to simulate thermal layers.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Sme things in life are never that certain

Big and fruity.