In which realism mod is it easier to attack convoys?

[Shyzar]

I was been playing with TM for a while a few months ago. I left SH4 and I just came back to it. I installed TMO 1.4 after reinstalling SH4. The problem is I cannot attack convoys because it seems that they magically know where I am. I have no trouble evading, but I can't actually get a good shot off with out risking getting rammed. What i would like to know is, Is it easier in RFB or TMO to attack convoys?
I was planning to get RSRDC, but I saw that it needed the U-boat addon and I don't have it. I might get it just so I can play the latest mods, but I don't really want to.

Thanks Shyzar

[gAiNiAc]

Sounds like you're blowing your cover on the approach.

How do you intercept the convoy?

try laying in wait in the path of the convoy then rise up for firing solution when they get near you.

a small loophole in the game is if you dont move they dont zero in on you so easy so try to get in position at long range and "park" until they come to you.

realism mods will almost without exception make you be detected easier because they realistically make sensors more accurate while the game actually "cheats" by actively pinging for subs 24/7 which is completely unrealistic but it is hard coded into the game and cant be changed. so the better sensors make your chances of not being detected almost impossible.

[Ducimus]

>>the game actually "cheats" by actively pinging for subs 24/7
>>so the better sensors make your chances of not being detected almost impossible.

This is incorrect. Ive explained time and again how it works.

When i do play, most of the time, i am undetected.

Originally Posted by Ducimus

>>the game actually "cheats" by actively pinging for subs 24/7
>>so the better sensors make your chances of not being detected almost impossible.

This is incorrect. Ive explained time and again how it works.

When i do play, most of the time, i am undetected.

well, maybe the part about it being impossible to go undetected but the game actively pinging 24/7 is not how it was.

someone just learning the game hasnt spent as much time learning the skills of stealthy approach and how to set up attacks.

keep in mind, without your tutorial and some experience, trying to go undetected is very very hard and can seem impossible, even before the sensors are improved by a realism mod.

i've read them and your tutorials on sonar detection are excellent and insightfull and should be required reading before playing the game so it is more enjoyable.

[Shyzar]

I do try to lay in wait of the convoy as much as I can, but I have one nasty habit.
From sighting to sinking, I never lower the scope (this causes me to sometimes leave the scope up while cruising so I go flank speed for 1000 m and find out the scope is still up ).

I have stopped playing with TMO, but I just realized how much I love that mod, so I'm going to play with TMO and the 1.4 version of RSRDC.

Also, does anyone know any links to good sites that deal with WW2 sub tactics?

[Ducimus]

>>I do try to lay in wait of the convoy as much as I can,

Don't lay in wait, directly in front of an oncoming escort. That will get you detected more of then then not. Stay off to one side of them.

>>I never lower the scope
Never leave it up for 25 seconds or longer.

>>I go flank speed for 1000 m

If your doing this near a convoy, your ringing the dinner bell. Never go to flank speed unless it means getting out from under a depth charge attack.

[Shyzar]

I actually meant the m as miles (i didn't even think of meters at the time). I go leave the scene and back at pearl I see that my scope is still up.

I try not to stay right in front of an escort, my estimation is I normally am at least 400 yards from the escort's track (I could be wrong though).

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

>>the game actually "cheats" by actively pinging for subs 24/7
>>so the better sensors make your chances of not being detected almost impossible.

This is incorrect. Ive explained time and again how it works.

When i do play, most of the time, i am undetected.

Where is that "enemy sensors" tutorial you made so many moons ago? Might be a good idea to post an updated link to it. I sure I know I'd like to get a copy of it again.

[DrBeast]

Originally Posted by LukeFF

Where is that "enemy sensors" tutorial you made so many moons ago? Might be a good idea to post an updated link to it. I sure I know I'd like to get a copy of it again.

The one posted at ducimus.net? I saved a copy the moment I found it (sometimes it's worth not having internet at home!). Unfortunately, I'm 360Km away from said home
Give me a moment or two to undig some other threads by Ole Duci here at Subsims pertaining to enemy sensors and how to tweak them, they're just as useful...

ETA: Found one, here

[Rockin Robbins]

Destroyers do not ping 24/7. If they are pinging they do not necessarily detect you either.

[theluckyone17]

I do believe the 24/7 pinging refers to the game's method of determining when the escort's ping... If I remember and paraphrase correctly from one of Ducimus' posts a while back (months ago?), it goes something like this:

The escort will ping if your sub is:

• in the "cone"... the area in front of the escort where the escort can ping
• within the active sonar range of the escort
• orientated so that the escort will receive a strong return

Hence the "24/7" term... regardless of whether the escort's crew "realistically" should be actively pinging at that point, or whether the escort suspects your presence, if the above three conditions are met, then the escort is going to ping, and it's going to find you.

The above refers to when the escort isn't "suspicious"... I've had times where the escorts are alerted to my presence, and they're pinging, but they're not in a position or orientation where they're gonna find me. *shrug*

I normally play "Dead is Dead"... which makes the above really tedious. I seem to fare well against destroyers... but I dread subchasers. I've currently got a saved game in front of a large early war convoy, with a subchaser out in front of the convoy. The weather is fair (no large waves), the time is just past sundown, and this subchaser seems to have perfect eyes and ears. If I'm close enough to recognize him as a subchaser, and I've got my 'scope up for any length of time, he seems to zero in on me. If I sit at 1 knot, silent running, at 270', and he gets close enough... he hears me.

If I can keep enough lateral separation, at 270', and orientate my sub so that I keep him off my beam (in other words, my bow or stern is pointed at him, reducing the return of his ping), then I can manage to sneak undetected as he passes me. Pop up in the middle of the convoy, wreak havoc, and get away.

The fun part I'm finding is the convoy scattering as soon as I launch my fish... and somehow, as a result, I'm still managing to miss. It's frustrating, but a good frustrating.

I'm also trying to find a fool proof way of measuring the exact speed of the convoy with the above tactic, since laying submerged to avoid detection means you can't keep popping the 'scope up to take stadiometer readings. I'm thinking I need to keep out in front of the convoy for a bit, matching speed and direction, and verify the convoy's speed that way.

I'd love to see Ducimus' video, too, if someone's got a copy laying around. I'll hit ducimus.net first, though.

[Ducimus]

I never made a video.

Also i should mention that "lost contact time" has been changed in how it works.

This one value was for all escorts regardless if they were convoy escorts, port escorts and hunter killer groups. That, im told, is no longer the case, it's supposed to handle them differently now.

The time that non convoy escort stays hunting the submarine is now calculated as 2 * (skill * 4 + 2) * lost_contact_time -/+30%. Skill being 0 - 1 where 1 is elite.



So for a non convoy elite escort that might be ….

2 * (1 *4 +2) = 12

12 * 15 = 180

180 -/+ 30%=54

180 – or + 54 = 126 to 234 minutes



So for a non convoy escort that might be ….

2 * (0.6 *4 +2) = 8.8

8.8 * 15 = 132

132 -/+ 30%= 39.6

132 – or + 36.9 = 92 to 172 minutes


The time is now calculated from the time that the escort arrives on location, instead of when a unit makes initial contact.

Now Supposively, For convoy escort the "Lost contact time= " stays the same as its always been with the only change being that the time is now calculated from the time that the escort arrives on location. Although im skeptical in that because ive seen them loiter alot longer then 15 minutes.

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I never made a video.

well you should start working on one right away then, lots of well built women in micro miniskirts would better help us better understand proper sub tactics


seriously, if you had time one day to refresh your tutorials we would all be very gratefull and there is no doubt we could all benefit from your explanation on proper tactics for evasion.