One good reason to have SHV in the Atlantic

UnterseeBoogeyMan · 03-06-08, 10:12 PM

One aspect of the war that hasn't been captured in the Silent Hunter series is the wolf-pack. The backend programming of the game should be powerfull enough to allow for other AI-controlled subs to coordinate with BDU on a combined attack - and they should shoot torpedoes! Further, as a player, you need to have a strong enough incentive to be the recon sub and call the pack to your convoy. The incentive has to be good enough to risk HDF drawing a bead on you. Here' s how the incentive would work:

-should you make positive sighting, then call other boats into the fray, you get renown (300?)
-for every merchant sunk by a sub you call in, you collect 35% of the renown for that sunk ship

Another aspect, that I think would be good is actual consequences for what you sink and what the Kreigsmarine sinks. If the GRT losses raise to a certain number, certain offensives have to be postponed. If 1943 had gone differently, would the Allies be storming Normandy in 1944? If the GRT was higher in 1940-41, would there be escorts available for Operation Torch? If Torch doesnt happen, Rommel has some room and time to recover from El Alamein. I got this idea from reading the Battle of the Atlantic by Samuel Elliot Morrison and he touches on some of these possiblities to illustrate how critical the Atlantic supply routes were.

This may be asking too much, but how about a strategic element to the game? You are Doenitz and/or Raeder and you have to decide if you want more Type IXs or Type VIIs. Doenitz favored the VIIs becuase they were produced quicker and for him, the decisive battle were the routes to the UK. Long range wasnt required to reach these areas from France. The downside is lesser range, less torpedoes. But as boss of the Kreigsmarine you decide what's needed. More boats that fight closer to Fortress Europe or less boats that can travel longer ranges? It depends on your world strategy, what your long-range objective is.

So that's my case for a Silent Hunter V.

Sailor Steve · 03-06-08, 10:35 PM

Sounds more like a case for Kriegsmarine Komandant 1.

FIREWALL · 03-06-08, 10:43 PM

Look for it in the next addon. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Same price ,smaller content.

Not laughing at you matey.

UnterseeBoogeyMan · 03-07-08, 01:50 AM

Steve, that's a good title. If I learn C++ and whatever languages games use these days I'll borrow that

.

Firewall, NO..MORE CONTENT, SAME UNBEATABLE PRICE! LOL I know none of that would never make it into GWX. The GWX crew did such a great job, and the things I want in it are too much for the engine. You'd still have all the mechanics of firing, plotting, etc, but I just thought instead rehashing the same old sim, make it a fuller in-depth experience. Just in reading about the period, I realized that all possibilities for a U-boat subsim in the Atlantic have not been exhausted.

Anyways, good hunting. I just had the most success I've had so far with magnetics tonight. That's another story for another thread.

NOTE: Captain McIntyre brought up 2 points in his book, if I were to do a game, I would include.
1. On warm calm days with no clouds, he had the most trouble with his asdic. I guess it was too many temperature layers for the sound to bounce off of. I'll have to reread that section
2. On one convoy passage he used smoke prior to a major course change in the route. This threw off his attackers. For users running 100% realism that would be an issue to have to deal with.

Torplexed · 03-07-08, 02:19 AM

Compass Games is working on a board game that simulates the U-Boat War in the Atlantic on a grand strategic (Doenitz) level. Steel Wolves. It's a solitaire system I believe. They came out with one last year that covered the US submarine campaign against Japan. Might be a source of good ideas.

http://www.compassgames.com/steel_wolves.htm

Elmer Kosterman · 03-07-08, 07:49 AM

I with you on the wolfpack-idea all the way.

Considering everything I've read and heard on the subject, the U-Boats never seriously threatened to cripple shipping to Britain, much less affect allied opeations, even if they were Churchill's "greatest fear." But...

A strategic decision-making portion of the game would be interesting, not only which boats to produce but where to send them.

Sailor Steve · 03-07-08, 12:01 PM

Torplexed, thanks for that reference. I don't like strategic-level computer games, but board games are another sim entirely. I'll be getting both of those.

Avatar · 03-07-08, 01:01 PM

I agree completely. Addition of wolfpacks would be a great addition. I dont even think they need to spruce up the graphics; I find the graphics in sh3 to be very nice.
Addition of a thremal layer is another great idea.
If they did follow GWX's concept, I believe those guys(GWX) need some involvement and payment for what theyve done.
I know those guys at UBIsoft would have to make a decision about graphics, sh4 looks pretty but it is the correctness of the simulation and game mechanics that make a good sim. Also, making sh5 into a Uboat sim, I believe would be the equivalent of adding another Hoth scenario to another starwars game. Its been done too many times. But with the large following and support of a Uboat war sim, even the uboat add-on in sh4, should play a key element in deciding what sh5 should be and hopefully a Uboat sim.
One of the coolest thing that ever happened to me was in Command Aces of the Deep, where about 5 uboats were attacking a convoy, one of the AI controlled uboats was spotted near me and the ASW craft came looking for him only to detect me! I had to take the beating while he slipped away. My lesson learned was not to get close to AI submarines.
I'm speaking way off about this and I dont even know whats on the drawing board at UBIsoft, if there is anything at all. But I think its a great idea.

BTW, steel wolves looks awesome! like the old board game Harpoon.

difool2 · 03-07-08, 01:03 PM

Guess the OP never heard of Subwolves, who have a forum right here in this one:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=215

Note that you should be able to drive a sub in SH3 once Subwolves gets it (sub) within detection range on its strategic map.

03-06-08, 10:12 PM	#1
UnterseeBoogeyMan Ensign Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Land of Cholla Cactus and Red Chile Posts: 224 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	One good reason to have SHV in the Atlantic One aspect of the war that hasn't been captured in the Silent Hunter series is the wolf-pack. The backend programming of the game should be powerfull enough to allow for other AI-controlled subs to coordinate with BDU on a combined attack - and they should shoot torpedoes! Further, as a player, you need to have a strong enough incentive to be the recon sub and call the pack to your convoy. The incentive has to be good enough to risk HDF drawing a bead on you. Here' s how the incentive would work: -should you make positive sighting, then call other boats into the fray, you get renown (300?) -for every merchant sunk by a sub you call in, you collect 35% of the renown for that sunk ship Another aspect, that I think would be good is actual consequences for what you sink and what the Kreigsmarine sinks. If the GRT losses raise to a certain number, certain offensives have to be postponed. If 1943 had gone differently, would the Allies be storming Normandy in 1944? If the GRT was higher in 1940-41, would there be escorts available for Operation Torch? If Torch doesnt happen, Rommel has some room and time to recover from El Alamein. I got this idea from reading the Battle of the Atlantic by Samuel Elliot Morrison and he touches on some of these possiblities to illustrate how critical the Atlantic supply routes were. This may be asking too much, but how about a strategic element to the game? You are Doenitz and/or Raeder and you have to decide if you want more Type IXs or Type VIIs. Doenitz favored the VIIs becuase they were produced quicker and for him, the decisive battle were the routes to the UK. Long range wasnt required to reach these areas from France. The downside is lesser range, less torpedoes. But as boss of the Kreigsmarine you decide what's needed. More boats that fight closer to Fortress Europe or less boats that can travel longer ranges? It depends on your world strategy, what your long-range objective is. So that's my case for a Silent Hunter V.

03-06-08, 10:35 PM	#2
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Sounds more like a case for Kriegsmarine Komandant 1. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-06-08, 10:43 PM	#3
FIREWALL Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CATALINA IS. SO . CAL USA Posts: 10,108 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	Look for it in the next addon. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Same price ,smaller content. Not laughing at you matey. __________________ RIP FIREWALL I Play GWX. Silent Hunter Who ???

03-07-08, 12:01 PM	#7
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	Torplexed, thanks for that reference. I don't like strategic-level computer games, but board games are another sim entirely. I'll be getting both of those. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-07-08, 01:50 AM	#4
UnterseeBoogeyMan Ensign Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: The Land of Cholla Cactus and Red Chile Posts: 224 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Steve, that's a good title. If I learn C++ and whatever languages games use these days I'll borrow that . Firewall, NO..MORE CONTENT, SAME UNBEATABLE PRICE! LOL I know none of that would never make it into GWX. The GWX crew did such a great job, and the things I want in it are too much for the engine. You'd still have all the mechanics of firing, plotting, etc, but I just thought instead rehashing the same old sim, make it a fuller in-depth experience. Just in reading about the period, I realized that all possibilities for a U-boat subsim in the Atlantic have not been exhausted. Anyways, good hunting. I just had the most success I've had so far with magnetics tonight. That's another story for another thread. NOTE: Captain McIntyre brought up 2 points in his book, if I were to do a game, I would include. 1. On warm calm days with no clouds, he had the most trouble with his asdic. I guess it was too many temperature layers for the sound to bounce off of. I'll have to reread that section 2. On one convoy passage he used smoke prior to a major course change in the route. This threw off his attackers. For users running 100% realism that would be an issue to have to deal with.

03-07-08, 02:19 AM	#5
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Compass Games is working on a board game that simulates the U-Boat War in the Atlantic on a grand strategic (Doenitz) level. Steel Wolves. It's a solitaire system I believe. They came out with one last year that covered the US submarine campaign against Japan. Might be a source of good ideas. http://www.compassgames.com/steel_wolves.htm

03-07-08, 07:49 AM	#6
Elmer Kosterman A-ganger Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: München Posts: 71 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	I with you on the wolfpack-idea all the way. Considering everything I've read and heard on the subject, the U-Boats never seriously threatened to cripple shipping to Britain, much less affect allied opeations, even if they were Churchill's "greatest fear." But... A strategic decision-making portion of the game would be interesting, not only which boats to produce but where to send them.

03-07-08, 01:01 PM	#8
Avatar Commodore Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Way out there Posts: 603 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	I agree completely. Addition of wolfpacks would be a great addition. I dont even think they need to spruce up the graphics; I find the graphics in sh3 to be very nice. Addition of a thremal layer is another great idea. If they did follow GWX's concept, I believe those guys(GWX) need some involvement and payment for what theyve done. I know those guys at UBIsoft would have to make a decision about graphics, sh4 looks pretty but it is the correctness of the simulation and game mechanics that make a good sim. Also, making sh5 into a Uboat sim, I believe would be the equivalent of adding another Hoth scenario to another starwars game. Its been done too many times. But with the large following and support of a Uboat war sim, even the uboat add-on in sh4, should play a key element in deciding what sh5 should be and hopefully a Uboat sim. One of the coolest thing that ever happened to me was in Command Aces of the Deep, where about 5 uboats were attacking a convoy, one of the AI controlled uboats was spotted near me and the ASW craft came looking for him only to detect me! I had to take the beating while he slipped away. My lesson learned was not to get close to AI submarines. I'm speaking way off about this and I dont even know whats on the drawing board at UBIsoft, if there is anything at all. But I think its a great idea. BTW, steel wolves looks awesome! like the old board game Harpoon.

03-07-08, 01:03 PM	#9
difool2 Commander Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 459 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	Guess the OP never heard of Subwolves, who have a forum right here in this one: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=215 Note that you should be able to drive a sub in SH3 once Subwolves gets it (sub) within detection range on its strategic map.