Surface attacks

[pyret]

So, as I'm on my way to my patrol area in the late 1941, I discover a lone C3 cargo ship in the middle of the night and I though I'd go for a surface attack.
I thought I'd use a old torpedo as they have longer range wich decreases the risk of me being detected.

But, on how far range is it best to attack?

[Heibges]

It depends on the visbility.

I've done surface attacks on convoys at 800m.

[thyro]

I've done surface attacks with Deck Gun under 400m to save shells ( crew doesn't miss a big target from that distance)

If the merchant has guns then glue to one of its sides (10/20m from it)... suficient away from their deckguns (so that the guns angle can't fire at your sub's tower).

Or go "kamikase" running straight to him with your crew aiming 1st the merchant's deck guns.

- In good conditions if you are surfaced they would detect your sub under 8/5km if you are firing your DG
- If you are submerged at periscope and flank they will dectect you under 2km
- If you are submerged at persicope and slow they often don't detect you, unless you pass infront of the ship.

[Manock]

Step out of the reality situation occasionally, and see what happens.

Even though your survival instincts are screaming at you to not take the risk. Try different approaches and see what happens. If you get sunk. Phew! Lucky this is a simulation. If you succeed, "I am a great reality uboat captain."

By late 1941, nearly all British ships had deck guns that can fight back, and sink you. Your strategy will center on that.

[pyret]

Well, I've now done some attacks in different conditions, all at night and all with torpedo attacks and not using the deck gun.
My conclusion is that using the older torpedoes (The steam ones with larger range) you can fire at about 2000-2500 meters and get a good shot. All the attacks I've made has been using a impact trigger and getting myself into such fire position.

All I can say is that it works perfect. If they detect you - so what? Just dive, stalk the ship for a while and send a magnetic torpedo in her prop to slow her down.

[panthercules]

I find that in my pre-1942 careers I can never really make surface attacks on anything but convoys (and now that it's late 1941 and they're all escorted and many of the escorts seem to have radar, that's not working out too well either). In the early war period, there are too many neutrals among the unescorted solo or paired merchants and it's too dark to see the flags at anything but very close range, so I always wind up doing a submerged attack so I can get within 5-600m and tell who I'm firing at. I have a feeling that maybe the real kaleuns weren't that conscientious, and maybe that's why as many neutrals were sunk as there were?

Basically, for me the "Happy Times" for surface convoy attacks seems to end in early 1940 when the convoys get enough escorts that you can't seem to sneak through the screens very well.

[tycho102]

With lone ships, I always use my deck gun if available (weather). Couple of AP's into the hull to wake them up and let'em know I'm there, then HE's on the deck cargo and into the waterline/hull. Catch that deck cargo on fire because the explosion causes some decent damage. Bring your periscope just outside the housing (~11 meters height), and watch your range real close (well, as close as you can, because I don't have any of the distance charts memorized).

During the day, dead calm, minimal profile, attacking from the rear quarters @15kts, they'll spot you at 2600 meters. At night, you pull up to 1600 meters or closer (sometimes 1100). With 15m/s wind, cut all those to 2/3's.

Give'er a flog 'till you get pretty close to spotting range, then do a dive to periscope and torp it. Personally, I never send torps into anything smaller than a C2. Too many convoys to attack.

[Darth Brooks]

I've been on three quick patrols in '39 and the weather in the Mid Atlantic has been rough to say the least. Is this normal for Mid Atlantic? or just winter?

[VonHelsching]

Well said tycho. Just to add that these ranges are for lone merchants only.

I've been spotted visually by an escort at arange between 4500 and 5000 m.

Later on in the war, you will see escorts / lone DDs come our of nowhere @ 30 knts straight at you. It's radar.

[panthercules]

Originally Posted by VonHelsching

Well said tycho. Just to add that these ranges are for lone merchants only.

I've been spotted visually by an escort at arange between 4500 and 5000 m.

Later on in the war, you will see escorts / lone DDs come our of nowhere @ 30 knts straight at you. It's radar.

Amen to that - I stalked a convoy for 3 days through the storms with heaviest fog/mist on my last patrol (July 1941), and during my first 3 attempts to sneak in to attack under the cover of fog I was surprised and damaged by escorts charging at me out of the fog/mist, even though they had been nowhere near when I surfaced for my attack runs. After the third time I figured it had to be more than coincidence, and that I must have run up against my first radar-equipped escorts.

Fortunately, the weather broke the next day and I was able to make a series of submerged attacks in which I sank 4 ships from that convoy before I finally ran out of torpedoes and had to head for home.

So much for surface attacks on convoys - those "Happy Days" are apparently over for this Kaleun.

[tycho102]

I've been having a lot of luck up through 1941 with the "Dead Stick" approach.

Basically works on any 3-4 escort convoy. Pull up ahead of the convoy and just sit at periscope depth, real quiet. You have to be 600-800 meters to either side of that point escort. I also point myself "diagonal" to the convoys base-course, so I am able to shoot with my bow and stern tubes. Then just wait for the rear "rich" C3's and tankers to line up, and let'em have a full load; 4 out of the bow, and 2 out of the stern. Just make sure you pop your scope up, shoot shoot, then duck it back down and rotate to the next ship. I'm talking maybe 10 seconds at the absolute tops for each salvo, and definately finish shooting before the first impact. Mag-dets if it's calm weather, and nothing beyond 1200 meters. I generally shoot electrics first at the farthest targets, then follow up with any steamers set to max speed.

Then I do a real quiet dive out the back diagonal of the convoy, between a flank escort and the rear escort. The lead and flank guards usually swarm to the afflicted targets, and the rear escort just takes his lazy time as usual. Sometimes an escort will get a ping, and I'll flank it down to the thermocline, then continue sneaking. Once I've got some range, I pop up to reload (externals, weather permitting), and run an end-around to catch the rest.


Obviously this only works out in the deep ocean. Middle of AL37 has been my sweet spot for about the past 12 patrols.




So, those lone merchants are nice on your way to the convoys, but don't waste too many torps. And certainly don't risk a surface engagement with an armed merchant.

[humesdog]

Originally Posted by Darth Brooks

I've been on three quick patrols in '39 and the weather in the Mid Atlantic has been rough to say the least. Is this normal for Mid Atlantic? or just winter?

To my knowledge, the devs modeled the world's weather on north atlantic weather patterns. So yes, having ferocious weather is a normal thing. Also depends on if you're using mods. I saw some different ones that tweaked the ferocity and frequency of storms and even some that modeled the mediterranean for patrols down there. And I've noticed with my vanilla copy that winter usually has worse weather.

[jasonb885]

Originally Posted by panthercules

...
In the early war period, there are too many neutrals among the unescorted solo or paired merchants and it's too dark to see the flags at anything but very close range, so I always wind up doing a submerged attack so I can get within 5-600m and tell who I'm firing at.

In the latest version of ImprovedConvoys, you won't find neutrals in convoys anymore. That particular feature has been resolved, I believe.



Applies fine against stock, but may provide the rare missing flag for nations not originally in the game, but added later as part of harbor traffic. Generally won't be an issue and never in convoys.

[Rosencrantz]

I don't understand why the neutrals travelling in the convoy shoul be a problem. In RL neutrals in convoys were carrying cargo for the enemy and that's why german subs were free to sink them. It wasn't that skippers were careless or something. Legally, neutrals weren't neutrals anymore. I did adjust renown for neutrals to be exactly the same than for the enemy vessels. Problem solved.

-RC-

[Generis71]

I'm on my first patrol and i'm cruising along just after midnight on 2nd Sept 39 and 20 km NW of Cuxhaven and I'm on the bridge. My lookouts say they've spotted a ship (which is a friendly near the Cuxhaven port) and I thought I'd try and practice spotting and identifying when I realise.. Its too bloody dark!! How I'm gonna ID and track targets etc using UZO or scope I'll never know hehe.. So I guess I have to get really closer? Actually that reminds me.. when I left Kiel it was 1 am and I couldn't see a damn thing lol. Thankfully there wasn't any harbor traffic my insurance premium would be so high