Deck gunning a Swan !!!

Blacklight · 02-06-08, 03:48 PM

Last night, I got forced to the surface due to damage and had to duke it out in a deck gun battle with a Black Swan.

I was busy steering zig zags at flank so I had an experienced gunner and watch officer (Also experienced watchman and gunner) fighting it out with the ship.

My question is this. When absolutely forced into this situation, what's the best way to target the ship ? Should I target the comand center, weapons, or waterline ? I was shooting for the weapons but that didn't do a heck of a lot of good.

I don't know how I survived, but I was able to limp to a port with one diesel, and no electric engines, as well as no flak guns and my hydrophone destroyed (Not to mention the huge gaping holes in the hull).

Also Ironically, none of my crew were injured. This was the seccond encounter of my mission so I decided to limp back to port with only two ships sunk for repairs.

FIREWALL · 02-06-08, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacklight

Last night, I got forced to the surface due to damage and had to duke it out in a deck gun battle with a Black Swan.

I was busy steering zig zags at flank so I had an experienced gunner and watch officer (Also experienced watchman and gunner) fighting it out with the ship.

My question is this. When absolutely forced into this situation, what's the best way to target the ship ? Should I target the comand center, weapons, or waterline ? I was shooting for the weapons but that didn't do a heck of a lot of good.

I don't know how I survived, but I was able to limp to a port with one diesel, and no electric engines, as well as no flak guns and my hydrophone destroyed (Not to mention the huge gaping holes in the hull).

Also Ironically, none of my crew were injured. This was the seccond encounter of my mission so I decided to limp back to port with only two ships sunk for repairs.

You were just about left with ROCKS to throw at him with all that damage.:rotfl:

Einzelganger · 02-06-08, 04:06 PM

Your first priorty should be to take out their gunturret which usually requires just about a direct hit. I've found manning the deckgun in those cases is more effective then the AI of your crew. In GWX however even their smaller caliber weapons still pack a punch and when exposing your boat to it long enough, it can still sink you.

Realistically speaking though, you'd be in no position to pose any serious resistance. For you, Herr Kaleun, the war is over.

Blacklight · 02-06-08, 04:21 PM

It's not over... because they didn't finish the job !we LIVED !!! MUAHAHAHAHAAA !!! Revenge will be sweet !

I think I damaged them just enough to get them running away, but I was in NO shape to continue the fight so I let him go. It was funny looking at the gun crews standing there in all that fire like they had asbestos clothing on. Either that or they were just REALLY REALLY tough. They were on fire and they still refused to leave their post. I imagine them calling frantically for fire extinguishers though.
"I say.. this burns quite a bit ! When are they going to get here with the extinguishers ?"
"I don't know, but it certainly IS quite warm. My hand is melting to the fireing lever."

02-06-08, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacklight

It's not over... because they didn't finish the job !we LIVED !!! MUAHAHAHAHAAA !!! Revenge will be sweet !

I think I damaged them just enough to get them running away, but I was in NO shape to continue the fight so I let him go. It was funny looking at the gun crews standing there in all that fire like they had asbestos clothing on. Either that or they were just REALLY REALLY tough. They were on fire and they still refused to leave their post. I imagine them calling frantically for fire extinguishers though.
"I say.. this burns quite a bit ! When are they going to get here with the extinguishers ?"
"I don't know, but it certainly IS quite warm. My hand is melting to the fireing lever."

"When they said I was going to be assigned to a fire team this wasn't quite what I had in mind."

To answer your question though: if absolutely forced into a situation like that, I personally man the deck gun and desperately try and target their main turrets. For some reason I'm always able to more effectively man the deck gun that my crew is, no matter how qualified they might be. Contrawise, I'm never as good on the flak guns as my crew is, so I always just let them duke it out with aircraft, on those rare (and desperate) occassions when I'm forced to slug it out with them.

Sniper_Fox · 02-06-08, 09:38 PM

I hear you, i once took on a flower corvette with the deckgun when i ran out of torpedoes on my way home, i couldnt outrun him, and i was in no position to crashdive and evade, so i manned the deckgun with him hot on my tail and ordered hard to stb and then emergency back to sharpen the turn, then runnign the gauntlet past broadside to his unprotected rear, and raped him from behind. sunk the damn thing but took heavy damage and was forced to limp bakc on a failing dieselm, leaked fuel everywhere, and ran out just within range of my batteries.

i lost radio, hydrophones, stb rudder stb prop, flak, both periscopes, stb engine, aswell as aft dive planes. i got major flooding in all but the stern quarters. had stop the flooding and pump out the water as i was sinking slowly, and had to blow ballasts as i guess my aft dive planes werent destroyed, but unresponsive (no external view... im hardcore lmfao)

lesson? dont take on warships on the surface unless its an armed trawler.

my advice if your forced into an engagement? try to get to its rear, less guns, and its props and rudders are easy targets, disable the boat, and try to hit the rear guns as you move to a safe distance to torp it.

Wulfmann · 02-07-08, 09:31 AM

If any of those completely unrealistic unhistorical encounters took place in GWX2 that would tell me they have more work to do.

I realize they are fun and before GW I use to destroy destroyers at long range.
In all of WWII only once did any U-Boat score a hit on a warship with its deck gun that being on a corvette. So, if you are having and winning such encounters it does not mirror reality.
Nothing wrong with having a good time but, IMO, that makes it a game and not a sim. Sim being a simulation a reflection on actual possibilities

But-------IMO and I too have had some very cool duels that remind one of swashbuckling knockout drag out broadside pirating ship of the line sailing days.

I look forward to that PT/S-Boot game/sim where those close pitched fights actually occurred.

U-Boats were meant to assassinate ships not overpower them.
However, once engaged our natural instincts to survive, even on a PC take over and we do any and everything we can.

That is why it is my hope the team can continue to improve, as they have, so that we simply can not have any chance in any battle with any gunned ship even a trawler or lone merchant and must act like the real Kaleuns would have had no choice in.

To make that less likely for me every warship has its crew rating increased to a minimum of 3 and all trawlers are 4 rated. They target and hit you so fast you simply do not consider any gun duel as an option.

Just-IMO

Wulfmann

Hanomag · 02-07-08, 10:49 AM

Kaluens,

I think the vulnerability of our boats is quite realistic. When I have to worry about a drunken merchant crewman with his daddys shotgun or some over zealous sailor with a slingshot rupturing my toilet paper thin hull, I'm thinking we are pretty close to real.

When GWX2 came out I posted about a coastal freighter that almost did me in with their AA guns.

I think really the game is gtg on realism. I dont think its realistic that a kaluen would issue the order to fight it out on the surface with a deck gun.. well, unless he and his crew were full blown fanatics maybe.

In both cases above, the boats and crew barely survived so they won the "dice roll". In real life, a destroyers guns would shred a boat, this we know...BUT not if the hits were grazing shots or just plain not critical. I guess it could happen. I have seen photos on this site of real boats that looked like crumpled beer cans limping into port so who knows. :hmm:

Boris · 02-07-08, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulfmann

If any of those completely unrealistic unhistorical encounters took place in GWX2 that would tell me they have more work to do.

I realize they are fun and before GW I use to destroy destroyers at long range.
In all of WWII only once did any U-Boat score a hit on a warship with its deck gun that being on a corvette. So, if you are having and winning such encounters it does not mirror reality.
Nothing wrong with having a good time but, IMO, that makes it a game and not a sim. Sim being a simulation a reflection on actual possibilities

But-------IMO and I too have had some very cool duels that remind one of swashbuckling knockout drag out broadside pirating ship of the line sailing days.

I look forward to that PT/S-Boot game/sim where those close pitched fights actually occurred.

U-Boats were meant to assassinate ships not overpower them.
However, once engaged our natural instincts to survive, even on a PC take over and we do any and everything we can.

That is why it is my hope the team can continue to improve, as they have, so that we simply can not have any chance in any battle with any gunned ship even a trawler or lone merchant and must act like the real Kaleuns would have had no choice in.

To make that less likely for me every warship has its crew rating increased to a minimum of 3 and all trawlers are 4 rated. They target and hit you so fast you simply do not consider any gun duel as an option.

Just-IMO

Wulfmann

I think it also has a lot to do with the fact that in RL captains weren't suicidal. SH3 players can take many more risks without fearing the consequence of death. Therefore, in the game, command decisions are made that would not be made in RL, leading to these situations that seem improbable, but were never tested in RL.

Wulfmann · 02-07-08, 03:10 PM

Think you are right Boris.
I guess since it takes a week two or even three before my crew is well tuned pretending to be Leonidas at some sort of heroic last stand does not bode well to me either.

I have, in desperation done a view things but the key word is desperation.

I had a destroyer keep me down even though it was out of depth charges. I went to TC hoping he would eventually leave but when my air was up I had no choice but surface.
No fish but I had a U-Flak with the after set the new twin 37MM.
I waited until he was passing over me so my stern was to his. The 37 can not do major damage but can take out his guns and talk about reloading too fast.
Not at all real but I did what I had to.
He then tried to ram me all the way home but finally left. This lasted more than a day from start to finish.
While surface duels are not realistic they are the ultimate adrenalin rush as you get pounded and see your gunnery results and I do look forward to those S-Booten where that will be a simulation of actuality.

Wulfmann

02-07-08, 03:27 PM

You might want to check the mods forum. Mikhayl is working on a playable S-boot, and it works! I've written and hosted several MP games with it, and have even started a career using SHIII and his S-boots!

My first career kill with my S-boot:

It's GWX compatible too!

02-06-08, 03:48 PM	#1
Blacklight Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,507 Downloads: 145 Uploads: 0	Deck gunning a Swan !!! Last night, I got forced to the surface due to damage and had to duke it out in a deck gun battle with a Black Swan. I was busy steering zig zags at flank so I had an experienced gunner and watch officer (Also experienced watchman and gunner) fighting it out with the ship. My question is this. When absolutely forced into this situation, what's the best way to target the ship ? Should I target the comand center, weapons, or waterline ? I was shooting for the weapons but that didn't do a heck of a lot of good. I don't know how I survived, but I was able to limp to a port with one diesel, and no electric engines, as well as no flak guns and my hydrophone destroyed (Not to mention the huge gaping holes in the hull). Also Ironically, none of my crew were injured. This was the seccond encounter of my mission so I decided to limp back to port with only two ships sunk for repairs. __________________ Be my friend or be a mushroom cloud. "I am coming at you. You will explode in a couple of minutes !"

02-06-08, 04:06 PM	#3
Einzelganger Electrician's Mate Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 135 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Your first priorty should be to take out their gunturret which usually requires just about a direct hit. I've found manning the deckgun in those cases is more effective then the AI of your crew. In GWX however even their smaller caliber weapons still pack a punch and when exposing your boat to it long enough, it can still sink you. Realistically speaking though, you'd be in no position to pose any serious resistance. For you, Herr Kaleun, the war is over. __________________ Den Tipperary song, wenn ich bitten darf !

02-06-08, 04:21 PM	#4
Blacklight Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,507 Downloads: 145 Uploads: 0	It's not over... because they didn't finish the job !we LIVED !!! MUAHAHAHAHAAA !!! Revenge will be sweet ! I think I damaged them just enough to get them running away, but I was in NO shape to continue the fight so I let him go. It was funny looking at the gun crews standing there in all that fire like they had asbestos clothing on. Either that or they were just REALLY REALLY tough. They were on fire and they still refused to leave their post. I imagine them calling frantically for fire extinguishers though. "I say.. this burns quite a bit ! When are they going to get here with the extinguishers ?" "I don't know, but it certainly IS quite warm. My hand is melting to the fireing lever." __________________ Be my friend or be a mushroom cloud. "I am coming at you. You will explode in a couple of minutes !"

02-06-08, 09:38 PM	#6
Sniper_Fox Engineer Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: North of Malta, shadowing your pretty little C3 Cargo! Posts: 212 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	I hear you, i once took on a flower corvette with the deckgun when i ran out of torpedoes on my way home, i couldnt outrun him, and i was in no position to crashdive and evade, so i manned the deckgun with him hot on my tail and ordered hard to stb and then emergency back to sharpen the turn, then runnign the gauntlet past broadside to his unprotected rear, and raped him from behind. sunk the damn thing but took heavy damage and was forced to limp bakc on a failing dieselm, leaked fuel everywhere, and ran out just within range of my batteries. i lost radio, hydrophones, stb rudder stb prop, flak, both periscopes, stb engine, aswell as aft dive planes. i got major flooding in all but the stern quarters. had stop the flooding and pump out the water as i was sinking slowly, and had to blow ballasts as i guess my aft dive planes werent destroyed, but unresponsive (no external view... im hardcore lmfao) lesson? dont take on warships on the surface unless its an armed trawler. my advice if your forced into an engagement? try to get to its rear, less guns, and its props and rudders are easy targets, disable the boat, and try to hit the rear guns as you move to a safe distance to torp it. __________________ Im a one U-boat wolfpack. Ive hit the bottom of the Mediterranian at 250 metres in my VIIC and brought that babe back up, and still made it back to La Spezia. Ive sunk more destroyers than I have merchants...youll wish you never sailed into U-87s hunting grounds. When you pull into port, dont lull yourself into a false sense of security, your mines and subnets are just a petty challenge for my crew and I.

02-07-08, 09:31 AM	#7
Wulfmann Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 1,010 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	If any of those completely unrealistic unhistorical encounters took place in GWX2 that would tell me they have more work to do. I realize they are fun and before GW I use to destroy destroyers at long range. In all of WWII only once did any U-Boat score a hit on a warship with its deck gun that being on a corvette. So, if you are having and winning such encounters it does not mirror reality. Nothing wrong with having a good time but, IMO, that makes it a game and not a sim. Sim being a simulation a reflection on actual possibilities But-------IMO and I too have had some very cool duels that remind one of swashbuckling knockout drag out broadside pirating ship of the line sailing days. I look forward to that PT/S-Boot game/sim where those close pitched fights actually occurred. U-Boats were meant to assassinate ships not overpower them. However, once engaged our natural instincts to survive, even on a PC take over and we do any and everything we can. That is why it is my hope the team can continue to improve, as they have, so that we simply can not have any chance in any battle with any gunned ship even a trawler or lone merchant and must act like the real Kaleuns would have had no choice in. To make that less likely for me every warship has its crew rating increased to a minimum of 3 and all trawlers are 4 rated. They target and hit you so fast you simply do not consider any gun duel as an option. Just-IMO Wulfmann __________________ "The right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed upon, if only to prevent tyranny in government" Thomas Jefferson,; Constitutional debates

02-07-08, 10:49 AM	#8
Hanomag Grey Wolf Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: LI NY Posts: 964 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Kaluens, I think the vulnerability of our boats is quite realistic. When I have to worry about a drunken merchant crewman with his daddys shotgun or some over zealous sailor with a slingshot rupturing my toilet paper thin hull, I'm thinking we are pretty close to real. When GWX2 came out I posted about a coastal freighter that almost did me in with their AA guns. I think really the game is gtg on realism. I dont think its realistic that a kaluen would issue the order to fight it out on the surface with a deck gun.. well, unless he and his crew were full blown fanatics maybe. In both cases above, the boats and crew barely survived so they won the "dice roll". In real life, a destroyers guns would shred a boat, this we know...BUT not if the hits were grazing shots or just plain not critical. I guess it could happen. I have seen photos on this site of real boats that looked like crumpled beer cans limping into port so who knows. :hmm: __________________ "Only if I can save first..."

02-07-08, 03:10 PM	#10
Wulfmann Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 1,010 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	Think you are right Boris. I guess since it takes a week two or even three before my crew is well tuned pretending to be Leonidas at some sort of heroic last stand does not bode well to me either. I have, in desperation done a view things but the key word is desperation. I had a destroyer keep me down even though it was out of depth charges. I went to TC hoping he would eventually leave but when my air was up I had no choice but surface. No fish but I had a U-Flak with the after set the new twin 37MM. I waited until he was passing over me so my stern was to his. The 37 can not do major damage but can take out his guns and talk about reloading too fast. Not at all real but I did what I had to. He then tried to ram me all the way home but finally left. This lasted more than a day from start to finish. While surface duels are not realistic they are the ultimate adrenalin rush as you get pounded and see your gunnery results and I do look forward to those S-Booten where that will be a simulation of actuality. Wulfmann __________________ "The right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed upon, if only to prevent tyranny in government" Thomas Jefferson,; Constitutional debates

02-07-08, 03:27 PM	#11
Albrecht Von Hesse Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	You might want to check the mods forum. Mikhayl is working on a playable S-boot, and it works! I've written and hosted several MP games with it, and have even started a career using SHIII and his S-boots! My first career kill with my S-boot: It's GWX compatible too!