XO: "We're running low on provisions, sir!"

Safe-Keeper · 08-30-06, 12:11 PM

After some people brought this up, I thought I'd see what the community as a whole thought of it.

Do you want supplies of provisions (a.k.a. food and fresh-water) and spare parts (for repairs and fixing of break-downs, for example) to be finite in Silent Hunter IV? I personally think it'd be a good idea, as it'd put a limit on patrol time other than torpedoes, gun ammunition, and critical damage or crew deaths. There were, as far as I know, quite a few times in reality when subs had to return home due to food reserves being depleted, rather than due to torpedoes being expended (which is often the case here).

Furthermore, it can't be that time-consuming to add (note that I'm not really into programming here

). Just two more variables (provisions and spare parts) and some triggers that increases fatigue and eventually causes death when food runs low and which makes repairs less effective (components cannot be repaired to "normal", for example) or impossible when spare parts run low.

Footnotes
* (in poll): "Yesh" includes "yes, but only if it's a realism option".

Ark · 08-30-06, 12:17 PM

That would be great, IMO.

I always felt that things such as that could only add to the immersion factor.

Hylander_1314 · 08-30-06, 12:31 PM

Don't forget about the cook who can toss a couple grenades over the side from time to time. I wouldn't do it in a combat zone, but out in the open ocean, or around friendly islands should be safe enough.

Now where did I stow that fishing rod! Oh Captains Quarters that's where.

Threadfin · 08-30-06, 01:04 PM

Food shortages simply were not an issue on US fleet boats, with an occasional exception, usually bad water. They were among the best provisioned combat units anywhere. Good food and plenty of it. They even baked their own cakes to celebrate sinkings while on patrol. They had fresh water distilleries, refrigerators and freezers. This should be a non-issue for SH4 in my opinion. Life on a US fleet boat was not Das Boot. They could take showers, could do laundry, had good food, movies for entertainment. US fleet boats like Gato, Balao and Tench were far more livable than some seem to imagine.

Maybe for S-boats, but they're not in there. I would vote no in the poll, but there's no "No. It was not an issue in reality, and therefore should not be included in SH4". That would get my vote. If you could perhaps name some patrols in WW2 by US fleet boats in the Pacific that were terminated due to running out of food perhaps I would change my mind. Maybe with P-class there were issues, I'm not sure of their provision arrangement, whether it was more like the S-class or more like the Balao for example.

The spare parts thing is fine, but only if coupled with a detailed damage and breakdown model.

Capt. D · 08-30-06, 03:19 PM

I have to vote no on the provision issue also. Of all the books I've read on US subs I never read anything about becoming low on provisions. Water at times was an issue as water for the batteries and cooking was priority and showeres though available were not a daily common thing. When taking showers one had to do the wet down - off with the water - soap up - rinse off and then off with the water again.

Our subs - especially the Tambors on up - were like palaces vs the U-Boats. Having read some of their stories I remember many a mention of spoiled food. Also if you go on site of the U-505 in Chicago and take the virtual tour take a look at the galley in that boat! It's a wonder anything got cooked! Take a virtual tour of the USS Cod, Silversides and the Cavalla and just look at the difference of the galley.

I do think that spare parts were an issue and have read of subs meeting to hand over spare parts to an outgoing boat who needed this or that. Could be a feature in the sim(?)

Got a question - the trailers for SH4 seem to show underwater views. Is this going to be part of the sim? I could do without those (much like SH3 and SH2) as one never had that option as far as I know on a patrol. Use the space needed for those views to give more external departmental coverage!

Happy Hunting

Safe-Keeper · 08-30-06, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Food shortages simply were not an issue on US fleet boats (...)

Meh, didn't know that. I knew about the fridges, but still, I thought it'd still be an issue. My bad.

Hmmm... What if Japanese spies sabotage the fishing-pole and Bernard's Silent Service counter-part accidentally eats some vital part of the refridgerator

?

My point still stands about spare parts, though.

Takeda Shingen · 08-30-06, 04:30 PM

I think that this is a magnificent idea. Certianly, problems with food shortage were not a major issue, but this does not mean that your crew should be able to stay at sea indefinitely. So unless your boat grows it's own wheat and has it's own vegetable garden, there should be a limit on provisions.

Sailor Steve · 08-30-06, 05:37 PM

I voted yes. I was actually thinking of U-boats when I did, but I feel it ought to be at least a consideration.

The Noob · 08-30-06, 06:56 PM

YES!

If Ancient Subsims like Silent Service 1 had it, why shouldn't Modern ones have it?! YES FOR GODS SAKE! I WANT IT!

Zero Niner · 08-30-06, 08:30 PM

Perhaps the idea could be implemented for spare parts - those were definitely finite and an insufficiency of parts could lead to reduced efficiency for one's sub in the game - perhaps reduced max depth for the duration of the patrol (crew unable to stop all leaks after a bad DC attack, for example), oil slick visible on surface & reduced cruising range, attack periscopes can't be used, lowered max speed to simulate incomplete repairs to the diesel engines, etc.
Then you, as the captain, would have to make the call - abort the patrol, or carry on and press your luck?

bookworm_020 · 08-31-06, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Niner

Perhaps the idea could be implemented for spare parts - those were definitely finite and an insufficiency of parts could lead to reduced efficiency for one's sub in the game - perhaps reduced max depth for the duration of the patrol (crew unable to stop all leaks after a bad DC attack, for example), oil slick visible on surface & reduced cruising range, attack periscopes can't be used, lowered max speed to simulate incomplete repairs to the diesel engines, etc.
Then you, as the captain, would have to make the call - abort the patrol, or carry on and press your luck?

It sounds like a better idea than the food, after reading "Clear the bridge" (the book on U.S.S Tang) and reading about the Ice cream machine and the deep fryer (that malfunctioned

) it shows that American ships were well stocked when it came to food.

When it came to booze, see the Australian Navy

Maybe calling into a friendly port or part exchange from another sub could be possible. It happened a couple of times (the between subs), especally as they were the closest friendly units in enemy waters

Safe-Keeper · 08-31-06, 04:31 AM

So... OK, infinite or nearly infinite food rations, and spare parts as well as a more detailed damage system. You can have gauges that seize working (in the X-Wing series this could be extremely crippling), light bulbs that shatter, making crew efficiency lower, oil/fuel leaks leading to a tell-tale slick on the surface that tells the destroyers where you are, clorine (sp.?) gas leaks that eat up the oxygen and force your crew to put on gas masks, and so on.

More things that can be destroyed, as well as random breakdowns. And spare parts.

Immacolata · 08-31-06, 04:45 AM

Of course, this would have to be optional. But I really just want a more detailed and believeable damage model. If supplies and spare parts are factored in, too, fine. As long as the officers tells me my status and reminds me to turn back before I reach the Point of No Return

Capt. D · 08-31-06, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Niner

Perhaps the idea could be implemented for spare parts - those were definitely finite and an insufficiency of parts could lead to reduced efficiency for one's sub in the game - perhaps reduced max depth for the duration of the patrol (crew unable to stop all leaks after a bad DC attack, for example), oil slick visible on surface & reduced cruising range, attack periscopes can't be used, lowered max speed to simulate incomplete repairs to the diesel engines, etc.
Then you, as the captain, would have to make the call - abort the patrol, or carry on and press your luck?

Exactly!!

One needs to remember that each Captain received orders prior to departing on patrol that indicated a target date for him to enter his patrol zone and to exit his partol zone. Our subs were provisioned in relationship to that. Infinite provisions would not even be a case. Fuel, damage, or broken down equipment needing parts would be the focal point of having to return to base early. Later in the war with advance bases this issue would or could be solved quickly by returning to one of these bases and making repairs etc. Some boats actually left their patrol areas to get a reload of torps and then return to continue their patrol.

As Zero Niner points out so well, you, as the captain, must make the call based on information you receive from your officers, chiefs, and crew concerning the operational condition of your boat!

Happy Hunting

Takeda Shingen · 08-31-06, 08:18 AM

Was there an officer in charge of supply? Did he consult the captain regarding provisions? I would like one as well. Silent Hunter 3 was landmark as it simulated both submarine operations, much like Sub Command or Dangerous Waters. However, it also introduced a simultaneous command simulation to the genre. If I can promote and rotate my crew; if I can check the status of the batteries and diesel reserves; if I can manage repair status and reload times; then I should be able to check to see how much food is left on the boat, regardless if it is ever an issue or not.

View Poll Results: Should you have a limited supply of provisions and spare parts?
Yesh. Food only lasts for so long, as do screws, nuts, and bolts*.	309	82.84%
No opinion (I always get sunk before my crew gets to even have breakfast anyhow:p).	17	4.56%
No thanks. Give the subs those magic food-making machine thingies from Star Trek.	47	12.60%
Voters: 373. You may not vote on this poll

08-30-06, 12:11 PM	#1
Safe-Keeper Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 3,234 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	XO: "We're running low on provisions, sir!" After some people brought this up, I thought I'd see what the community as a whole thought of it. Do you want supplies of provisions (a.k.a. food and fresh-water) and spare parts (for repairs and fixing of break-downs, for example) to be finite in Silent Hunter IV? I personally think it'd be a good idea, as it'd put a limit on patrol time other than torpedoes, gun ammunition, and critical damage or crew deaths. There were, as far as I know, quite a few times in reality when subs had to return home due to food reserves being depleted, rather than due to torpedoes being expended (which is often the case here). Furthermore, it can't be that time-consuming to add (note that I'm not really into programming here). Just two more variables (provisions and spare parts) and some triggers that increases fatigue and eventually causes death when food runs low and which makes repairs less effective (components cannot be repaired to "normal", for example) or impossible when spare parts run low. Footnotes * (in poll): "Yesh" includes "yes, but only if it's a realism option". __________________ First Strike Mod tester. Hardcore sub skipper. Last edited by Safe-Keeper; 08-30-06 at 12:29 PM.

08-30-06, 12:17 PM	#2
Ark Samurai Navy Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Fresno, CA. Posts: 581 Downloads: 95 Uploads: 0	That would be great, IMO. I always felt that things such as that could only add to the immersion factor. __________________ Ark -------------- Vista 64-bit SP1 Asus P6T Deluxe mobo Core i7 920 @ 3.8ghz 6GB G.Skill DDR3 1600 Evga GTX 285 SSC SB X-FI Fatality 640GB WD "Black" Dell 3007WFP-HC 30" LCD / Acer 23" H233H

08-30-06, 12:31 PM	#3
Hylander_1314 Sea Lord Join Date: May 2006 Location: 5 Miles Inland West Of Lake Huron Posts: 1,936 Downloads: 139 Uploads: 0	Don't forget about the cook who can toss a couple grenades over the side from time to time. I wouldn't do it in a combat zone, but out in the open ocean, or around friendly islands should be safe enough. Now where did I stow that fishing rod! Oh Captains Quarters that's where. __________________ A legislative act contrary to the Constitution is not law. -John Marshall Chief Justice of the Supreme Court ---------------------

08-30-06, 01:04 PM	#4
Threadfin Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,163 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Food shortages simply were not an issue on US fleet boats, with an occasional exception, usually bad water. They were among the best provisioned combat units anywhere. Good food and plenty of it. They even baked their own cakes to celebrate sinkings while on patrol. They had fresh water distilleries, refrigerators and freezers. This should be a non-issue for SH4 in my opinion. Life on a US fleet boat was not Das Boot. They could take showers, could do laundry, had good food, movies for entertainment. US fleet boats like Gato, Balao and Tench were far more livable than some seem to imagine. Maybe for S-boats, but they're not in there. I would vote no in the poll, but there's no "No. It was not an issue in reality, and therefore should not be included in SH4". That would get my vote. If you could perhaps name some patrols in WW2 by US fleet boats in the Pacific that were terminated due to running out of food perhaps I would change my mind. Maybe with P-class there were issues, I'm not sure of their provision arrangement, whether it was more like the S-class or more like the Balao for example. The spare parts thing is fine, but only if coupled with a detailed damage and breakdown model. __________________ What? Behind the rabbit? Last edited by Threadfin; 08-30-06 at 01:27 PM.

08-30-06, 03:19 PM	#5
Capt. D Helmsman Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Warren, Michigan Posts: 109 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I have to vote no on the provision issue also. Of all the books I've read on US subs I never read anything about becoming low on provisions. Water at times was an issue as water for the batteries and cooking was priority and showeres though available were not a daily common thing. When taking showers one had to do the wet down - off with the water - soap up - rinse off and then off with the water again. Our subs - especially the Tambors on up - were like palaces vs the U-Boats. Having read some of their stories I remember many a mention of spoiled food. Also if you go on site of the U-505 in Chicago and take the virtual tour take a look at the galley in that boat! It's a wonder anything got cooked! Take a virtual tour of the USS Cod, Silversides and the Cavalla and just look at the difference of the galley. I do think that spare parts were an issue and have read of subs meeting to hand over spare parts to an outgoing boat who needed this or that. Could be a feature in the sim(?) Got a question - the trailers for SH4 seem to show underwater views. Is this going to be part of the sim? I could do without those (much like SH3 and SH2) as one never had that option as far as I know on a patrol. Use the space needed for those views to give more external departmental coverage! Happy Hunting Last edited by Capt. D; 08-30-06 at 03:32 PM.

08-30-06, 04:30 PM	#7
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	I think that this is a magnificent idea. Certianly, problems with food shortage were not a major issue, but this does not mean that your crew should be able to stay at sea indefinitely. So unless your boat grows it's own wheat and has it's own vegetable garden, there should be a limit on provisions.

08-30-06, 05:37 PM	#8
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I voted yes. I was actually thinking of U-boats when I did, but I feel it ought to be at least a consideration.

08-30-06, 06:56 PM	#9
The Noob The Old Man Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: de_dust2 Posts: 1,417 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	YES! If Ancient Subsims like Silent Service 1 had it, why shouldn't Modern ones have it?! YES FOR GODS SAKE! I WANT IT!

08-30-06, 08:30 PM	#10
Zero Niner Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,033 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	Perhaps the idea could be implemented for spare parts - those were definitely finite and an insufficiency of parts could lead to reduced efficiency for one's sub in the game - perhaps reduced max depth for the duration of the patrol (crew unable to stop all leaks after a bad DC attack, for example), oil slick visible on surface & reduced cruising range, attack periscopes can't be used, lowered max speed to simulate incomplete repairs to the diesel engines, etc. Then you, as the captain, would have to make the call - abort the patrol, or carry on and press your luck?

08-31-06, 04:31 AM	#12
Safe-Keeper Ocean Warrior Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Norway Posts: 3,234 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	So... OK, infinite or nearly infinite food rations, and spare parts as well as a more detailed damage system. You can have gauges that seize working (in the X-Wing series this could be extremely crippling), light bulbs that shatter, making crew efficiency lower, oil/fuel leaks leading to a tell-tale slick on the surface that tells the destroyers where you are, clorine (sp.?) gas leaks that eat up the oxygen and force your crew to put on gas masks, and so on. More things that can be destroyed, as well as random breakdowns. And spare parts. __________________ First Strike Mod tester. Hardcore sub skipper.

08-31-06, 04:45 AM	#13
Immacolata Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 798 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Of course, this would have to be optional. But I really just want a more detailed and believeable damage model. If supplies and spare parts are factored in, too, fine. As long as the officers tells me my status and reminds me to turn back before I reach the Point of No Return

08-31-06, 08:18 AM	#15
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Was there an officer in charge of supply? Did he consult the captain regarding provisions? I would like one as well. Silent Hunter 3 was landmark as it simulated both submarine operations, much like Sub Command or Dangerous Waters. However, it also introduced a simultaneous command simulation to the genre. If I can promote and rotate my crew; if I can check the status of the batteries and diesel reserves; if I can manage repair status and reload times; then I should be able to check to see how much food is left on the boat, regardless if it is ever an issue or not.