Full Realism Attack on Scapa Flow

JJ MacLeod · 12-13-07, 05:43 PM

To start with, I am using the following mods:
GWX Mod
Wazoo's Draggable Nomo Mod
Raduz's Hydrophone

I enjoy hunting in full realism because it makes the game come alive, you have to get it all right, or you just wasted all your torpedos and have nothing to show for it. I was looking around for something really challenging and decided after looking at http://www.mysh3.info/shiii/index.ph...unting_Grounds
that I was going to try going after moored Capital ships in Scapa Flow, to be precise, I was going to go after these two:

1939/09/15 - 1939/10/10, Auxiliary Cruiser, Scapa Flow

1939/10/04 - 1939/10/14, Battleship Revenge, Scapa Flow

Currently, in game, it is October 4, 1939, 21:05, and I have spent the last 4 hours manuevering around a destroyer in grid AN16

, trying to get into a narrow passage between two islands. I am finally at the mouth of the passage (which appears to have a lot of sunken ships in it) and I am encountering a minor problem. The weather, which was stormy on the crossing has now cleared up ... completely. The moon is bright, not a cloud in the sky, I have a destroyer that patrols within 4.5km of me that is moving at 17kts, ... and I am running out of oxygen

.

My question is this: Has anyone else done this run in full realism, and if so, any tips on how I might accomplish this without sending my green crew, and almost brand new boat (second cruise, still has that lingering new sub smell) to the briny deep?

KeptinCranky · 12-13-07, 06:19 PM

it's not all that deep there....

Seriously though, I've only done Scapa twice, once in a type II mind you, but if you're running out of air you're going to have to do something drastic because once you fire off them eels you're not going to have time for a breather, what with shore-batteries, patrolling DDs and other fun stuff.

you neglected to mention what boat you're driving so I'm going to assume a type VII for the moment.

Since this is early war and they're definitely not expecting you my thought is that surfacing while as far away from that DD as you can get and going to decks awash, say set depth for 7 meters and being very very quiet, and at a dead stop for half an hour will refresh the air in your boat. The batteries are a different problem but you shouldn't have used up too much juice.

This also gives you a good opportunity to observe the DDs patrol pattern and plan your attack course and where an when to shoot which torpedo, or even calculate a spread pattern that will take out everything you want to hit in one volley.

If you don't get noticed, very quietly go to PD again and commence your attack...
If you do get noticed...well, you were doomed anyway so that's allright

another suggestion if I may, called it an intelligence report if you will,...why not loiter for a few days about 50km west of where you are now, who knows what might come steaming your way...

U49 · 12-13-07, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ MacLeod

My question is this: Has anyone else done this run in full realism, and if so, any tips on how I might accomplish this without sending my green crew, and almost brand new boat (second cruise, still has that lingering new sub smell) to the briny deep?

but it took me a few trials,..

always restarted at my savegame point east of scapa flow.

I used the path betwen the blockships. Northern and sourthern route are both ok...

The only time I survived an entrance from the south was without full realism and at that time I blasted my way though(!) the escorts and had only half my topedo loadout remaining when I reached the juicy ships inside...

JJ MacLeod · 12-13-07, 06:40 PM

Thanks for replying so quickly

Sorry I didn't specify earlier, but my boat is a VIIB. I have spent the past 40 minutes (now 21:40 in game) creeping along at 12m with a mere 2 meters of clearance from the ocean floor, trying to get past these sunken ships, going to dead stop every time the destroyer is facing me, and then creeping along at 2kts once I am in his baffles.

Hopefully, once I am past these sunken ships, I can surface behind them without being seen ...

By the way, any ideas on how one might exit the area after firing my torpedos? ... would hate to attempt to navigate this channel again once all the destroyers get a little testy over the fact one of their battleships is resting on the bottom ...

U49 · 12-13-07, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ MacLeod

By the way, any ideas on how one might exit the area after firing my torpedos? ... would hate to attempt to navigate this channel again once all the destroyers get a little testy over the fact one of their battleships is resting on the bottom ...

Bad news for you.... I always used the same way ...in and out :rotfl:

KeptinCranky · 12-13-07, 07:09 PM

I always entered and exited through the east channel, still horribly shallow and has guns lining it that will shoot if your tower or scope breaches.

perhaps take out at least 1 escort as well

JJ MacLeod · 12-13-07, 07:52 PM

Have made it through the channel, and am now creeping out into the bay. I know that the bay is 10-12 meters deep, and I am going to try a shot. Now comes a question that I haven't had much thought about before.

I usually set torpedos for impact, 3 meters depth, on all my targets. Since I have never fired on a Battle ship before, the though occured to me, that it might not go down with 4 torpedos just a little below the waterline. The Recognition Manual says that the Revenge Class Battleship has a draft of 8.5 meters, and from what I have read (never personally tried Magnetic Detonation) that you are supposed to fire 3-5 meters below the draft line ... problem is the depth of the water in the bay.

Any helpful hints or suggestions as to what trigger (magnetic or impact) and what depth to send my fish swimming at?

KeptinCranky · 12-13-07, 08:07 PM

The problem with Battleships....

They have heavily armored sides and anti-torpedo bulges and bulkheads and whatnot, especially the WWI era BBs like the Revenges...

the lesson here, as the Americans did against Yamato and the British against Bismarck is to aim forn the bow and the stern since those are not heavily armored.

If you're going for the mag-shots in 1939 though there is the malfunction problem of torpedoes running too deep. the normal correct depth is between 1 and 1,5 meters below draft, which in your case means nearly on the bottom, malfunction or early detonation because of hitting the seeabed almost guaranteed.

to compensate for this, set the depth to 7.5 meters, if it does run correctly though it will almost certainly bounce off the ship and misfire

Since you're only going to get one shot and you want to maximize damage, what I'd do is aim an impact 3 meters depth at or near the bow, another at the stern and aim 1 mag set to 9 meters (or 10 if heavy weather) at the B turret (second from the bow) if you fire a fourth make it a mag aimed directly for or between the smokestacks. Do NOT fire impact eels at the armoured sides of a Battleship, chances are you won't sink it.

In the cases of Battlecruisers however, aim impact eels set to 4 meters at the A turret, between the smokestacks and C turret. I took out HMS Hood that way, cracked her right in two...

you've got yourself into a sticky situation, best of luck to you

kenijaru · 12-13-07, 08:09 PM

3 to 5 metres under the keel? no way.... i'm sure you mean feet

shoot the torps at 50cms (that's 0.5 metres) under the keel. but i dont know if you are suposed to shoot under the keel of a battleship (never met one)
3 metres below the waterline means that torpedoes will surely strike the anti-torpedo bulge, and again, i'm not sure if that tipe of "armor" actually works on the game.

so, i'm not actually sure why i'm replying

oh, yeah, 3 to 5 metres is too much for magnetic detonators, the torp will pass right by, the closer the better. try 0.5 to 1 metre

sasquatch · 12-14-07, 08:25 AM

Just my two-cents, but I've always succeeded in sinking Battleships when I hit their ammo supplies (under specific turrets) at 3 meters impact. Maybe SH III does not simulate the extra armor?

Von Schmidt · 12-14-07, 12:34 PM

I find the Lock Ewe is a more profitable port to attack. It is usually lightly guarded by three armed trawlers on approaching the mouth of port, and a small craft inside the port on asw patrol. There is anything from a Fleet carrier, escort carrier, BB's or light cruisers. Merchants range from Passenger liner to large tankers, there was even a dry dock. I always play as an IXb or an IXC on about 57% realism, these Uboats have great batteries esp if you upgrade, perfect for infiltrating this harbor. There are sub nets, put it has a gap in it, and sometime its not there. Do not surface at all inside the port. Many coastal batteries as well as destroyers at anchor. These come to life the minute there is an explosion. One such attack there was a Fleet carrier, an Bogue carrier and BB in port all at once. The air cover was extremely thick. On egress Once you reach the mouth of the port I recommend surfacing at flank speed with the deck manned.

12-13-07, 05:43 PM	#1
JJ MacLeod Swabbie Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Northern British Columbia, Canada Posts: 5 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Full Realism Attack on Scapa Flow To start with, I am using the following mods: GWX Mod Wazoo's Draggable Nomo Mod Raduz's Hydrophone I enjoy hunting in full realism because it makes the game come alive, you have to get it all right, or you just wasted all your torpedos and have nothing to show for it. I was looking around for something really challenging and decided after looking at http://www.mysh3.info/shiii/index.ph...unting_Grounds that I was going to try going after moored Capital ships in Scapa Flow, to be precise, I was going to go after these two: 1939/09/15 - 1939/10/10, Auxiliary Cruiser, Scapa Flow 1939/10/04 - 1939/10/14, Battleship Revenge, Scapa Flow Currently, in game, it is October 4, 1939, 21:05, and I have spent the last 4 hours manuevering around a destroyer in grid AN16 , trying to get into a narrow passage between two islands. I am finally at the mouth of the passage (which appears to have a lot of sunken ships in it) and I am encountering a minor problem. The weather, which was stormy on the crossing has now cleared up ... completely. The moon is bright, not a cloud in the sky, I have a destroyer that patrols within 4.5km of me that is moving at 17kts, ... and I am running out of oxygen . My question is this: Has anyone else done this run in full realism, and if so, any tips on how I might accomplish this without sending my green crew, and almost brand new boat (second cruise, still has that lingering new sub smell) to the briny deep? Last edited by JJ MacLeod; 12-13-07 at 06:07 PM.

12-13-07, 07:52 PM	#7
JJ MacLeod Swabbie Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Northern British Columbia, Canada Posts: 5 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Have made it through the channel, and am now creeping out into the bay. I know that the bay is 10-12 meters deep, and I am going to try a shot. Now comes a question that I haven't had much thought about before. I usually set torpedos for impact, 3 meters depth, on all my targets. Since I have never fired on a Battle ship before, the though occured to me, that it might not go down with 4 torpedos just a little below the waterline. The Recognition Manual says that the Revenge Class Battleship has a draft of 8.5 meters, and from what I have read (never personally tried Magnetic Detonation) that you are supposed to fire 3-5 meters below the draft line ... problem is the depth of the water in the bay. Any helpful hints or suggestions as to what trigger (magnetic or impact) and what depth to send my fish swimming at? __________________ "But I saw them do it in the movie "Down Periscope" Captain!"

12-13-07, 06:19 PM	#2
KeptinCranky Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,050 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	it's not all that deep there.... Seriously though, I've only done Scapa twice, once in a type II mind you, but if you're running out of air you're going to have to do something drastic because once you fire off them eels you're not going to have time for a breather, what with shore-batteries, patrolling DDs and other fun stuff. you neglected to mention what boat you're driving so I'm going to assume a type VII for the moment. Since this is early war and they're definitely not expecting you my thought is that surfacing while as far away from that DD as you can get and going to decks awash, say set depth for 7 meters and being very very quiet, and at a dead stop for half an hour will refresh the air in your boat. The batteries are a different problem but you shouldn't have used up too much juice. This also gives you a good opportunity to observe the DDs patrol pattern and plan your attack course and where an when to shoot which torpedo, or even calculate a spread pattern that will take out everything you want to hit in one volley. If you don't get noticed, very quietly go to PD again and commence your attack... If you do get noticed...well, you were doomed anyway so that's allright another suggestion if I may, called it an intelligence report if you will,...why not loiter for a few days about 50km west of where you are now, who knows what might come steaming your way...

12-13-07, 06:40 PM	#4
JJ MacLeod Swabbie Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Northern British Columbia, Canada Posts: 5 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Thanks for replying so quickly Sorry I didn't specify earlier, but my boat is a VIIB. I have spent the past 40 minutes (now 21:40 in game) creeping along at 12m with a mere 2 meters of clearance from the ocean floor, trying to get past these sunken ships, going to dead stop every time the destroyer is facing me, and then creeping along at 2kts once I am in his baffles. Hopefully, once I am past these sunken ships, I can surface behind them without being seen ... By the way, any ideas on how one might exit the area after firing my torpedos? ... would hate to attempt to navigate this channel again once all the destroyers get a little testy over the fact one of their battleships is resting on the bottom ...

12-13-07, 07:09 PM	#6
KeptinCranky Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,050 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	I always entered and exited through the east channel, still horribly shallow and has guns lining it that will shoot if your tower or scope breaches. perhaps take out at least 1 escort as well

12-13-07, 08:07 PM	#8
KeptinCranky Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,050 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	The problem with Battleships.... They have heavily armored sides and anti-torpedo bulges and bulkheads and whatnot, especially the WWI era BBs like the Revenges... the lesson here, as the Americans did against Yamato and the British against Bismarck is to aim forn the bow and the stern since those are not heavily armored. If you're going for the mag-shots in 1939 though there is the malfunction problem of torpedoes running too deep. the normal correct depth is between 1 and 1,5 meters below draft, which in your case means nearly on the bottom, malfunction or early detonation because of hitting the seeabed almost guaranteed. to compensate for this, set the depth to 7.5 meters, if it does run correctly though it will almost certainly bounce off the ship and misfire Since you're only going to get one shot and you want to maximize damage, what I'd do is aim an impact 3 meters depth at or near the bow, another at the stern and aim 1 mag set to 9 meters (or 10 if heavy weather) at the B turret (second from the bow) if you fire a fourth make it a mag aimed directly for or between the smokestacks. Do NOT fire impact eels at the armoured sides of a Battleship, chances are you won't sink it. In the cases of Battlecruisers however, aim impact eels set to 4 meters at the A turret, between the smokestacks and C turret. I took out HMS Hood that way, cracked her right in two... you've got yourself into a sticky situation, best of luck to you

12-14-07, 08:25 AM	#10
sasquatch Medic Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Kentucky, USA Posts: 160 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Just my two-cents, but I've always succeeded in sinking Battleships when I hit their ammo supplies (under specific turrets) at 3 meters impact. Maybe SH III does not simulate the extra armor?

12-14-07, 12:34 PM	#11
Von Schmidt Watch Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: FLorida Posts: 27 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	I find the Lock Ewe is a more profitable port to attack. It is usually lightly guarded by three armed trawlers on approaching the mouth of port, and a small craft inside the port on asw patrol. There is anything from a Fleet carrier, escort carrier, BB's or light cruisers. Merchants range from Passenger liner to large tankers, there was even a dry dock. I always play as an IXb or an IXC on about 57% realism, these Uboats have great batteries esp if you upgrade, perfect for infiltrating this harbor. There are sub nets, put it has a gap in it, and sometime its not there. Do not surface at all inside the port. Many coastal batteries as well as destroyers at anchor. These come to life the minute there is an explosion. One such attack there was a Fleet carrier, an Bogue carrier and BB in port all at once. The air cover was extremely thick. On egress Once you reach the mouth of the port I recommend surfacing at flank speed with the deck manned.