Iranian Submarine

Herr_Pete · 12-01-07, 02:20 PM

love this iranian submarine that can't be detected by radar. bet ya the US find it in no time.

August · 12-01-07, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr_Pete

love this iranian submarine that can't be detected by radar. bet ya the US find it in no time.

That's nothing. Did you hear about the new Iranian fighter? It can't be detected by sonar!

Herr_Pete · 12-01-07, 02:31 PM

ahaha lol you know theres something not rite. probs tested it with there 'modern technology' no doubt several decades old so maybe they beat there own rubbish lol forgeting major powers like US and UK are miles ahead lol

Chock · 12-01-07, 04:14 PM

Quote:

ahaha lol you know theres something not rite. probs tested it with there 'modern technology' no doubt several decades old so maybe they beat there own rubbish lol forgeting major powers like US and UK are miles ahead lol

I daresay it may not be as good as they claim, but underestimating your enemy and not treating them as a credible threat is one of the most basic tactical errors you can make. The US thought Pearl Harbor was too shallow to permit Japanese aircraft to drop air-launched torpedoes into, with the technology the Japs had, and we know what happened there.

Also do not underestimate the levels of education in Iran and their abilities where technological advancements are concerned. It might be a popular notion to regard them as Jihad following camel jockeys that struggle with clapped-out old Russian equipment and derivatives of it, but the truth is the Iranians are very highly educated and very sophisticated people, with a long tradition of innovation, particularly in nautical matters. The Astolabe, for example, is an Arabic invention; you might also want to note that the word, admiral, is an arabic word, meaning commander of the seas.

Chock

micky1up · 12-01-07, 04:31 PM

it took ten years to build so the plans are at least 15 years old man its outdated already

and of course they have a proud submarine tradition having the equipment is one thing the quality of the crew thats a different matter. a study after the first gulf war conculded that if the roles had been reversed and the allies had the iraqis equipment and the iraqis thiers the allies still would have won

Marcantilan · 12-01-07, 05:00 PM

Don´t underestimate the capacity of a SSK operating in shallow waters, specially in the tricky (hot & cold currents) Persian Gulf waters.

The new iranian boats are no joke for the US Navy.

Skybird · 12-01-07, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcantilan

Don´t underestimate the capacity of a SSK operating in shallow waters, specially in the tricky (hot & cold currents) Persian Gulf waters.

The new iranian boats are no joke for the US Navy.

Even more so since they will not try to chase a surface group, but in the narrow waters of the gulf or the straits can afford to wait in silence and let them come to them - nNo matter if surface group, tankers, or escorts.

An outdated type 209 has sunk 15 NATO vessels in southafrican exercises just weeks ago - already forgotten? And that was in the open ocean. It was reported that at no time it ever was detected while "killing" the complete NATO armada down to the last ship.

So one must not even refer to the Swedish sub being leased by the Navy to learn how kill it. that is in it's second year now, and they still don't have a clue, it seems. The Swedes say they Americans are desperate, and in over a year haven't found them one single time. they also said they could drive circles around the navy, and up and down the mississippi without the navy being able to do anything about it.

That sub may be an even more modern design, okay, but nevertheless - you get the message. It reads: competently handed diesel subs are an extremely dangerous opponent.

Don't talk your enemy strong. But also do not underestimate him. Especially when it comes to subs.

Kapitan · 12-01-07, 06:58 PM

quote skybird (An outdated type 209 has sunk 15 NATO vessels in southafrican exercises just weeks ago - already forgotten? And that was in the open ocean. It was reported that at no time it ever was detected while "killing" the complete NATO armada down to the last ship.)

Sometimes with that said it is good for buisness if the outdated tech sold to 3rd world contries acctually makes kills if it does that in an exercise then they may want more which means more cash for you even though you know you can find it some exercises are rigged.

There were reports german type 212's had to have noise makers fitted to thier sterns so other nato countries could atleast have half a chance.

Skybird · 12-01-07, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapitan

There were reports german type 212's had to have noise makers fitted to thier sterns so other nato countries could atleast have half a chance.

NOT ON MY BOAT...! This is no basketball!

PeriscopeDepth · 12-01-07, 07:30 PM

I'm curious...as I know there's at least one professional submariner that's already posted in this thread: do (or have) US submarines use methods to increase their emitted noise during exercises? I don't know if this is a classified area, but feel free not to answer if it is.

PD

Kapitan · 12-01-07, 07:33 PM

miky1up i do believe is on submarines however im not 100% sure.

Linton · 12-01-07, 07:35 PM

Micky is a retired submariner who is now using his talents in the private sector .

Skybird · 12-01-07, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeriscopeDepth

I'm curious...as I know there's at least one professional submariner that's already posted in this thread: do (or have) US submarines use methods to increase their emitted noise during exercises?

Deception of rivals takes place in peacetime whereever possible. Wether it be that you make yourself appear louder than you really are, or that you do not exceed certain speed limits, or try to deceive on the typical sound signature of your type of sub so that in conflict you would be wrongly identified - you try to hide your strengths and capacities, and try to make yourself appears as weaker than you are. Eventually political propaganda and prestige may interfere with that military goal. The chinese sub surfacing in the heart of a US group short time ago - was meant as a prestige win, a warning, and a PR stunt. However, I would have not allowed it to happen, if I were the Chinese, but I would have hidden that my subs couold do that. Like the US Navy allowed it to get happen to give the impression to the chinese they can beat the navy that easily.

You simply never know. This part of the match compares less to chess, and more to poker.

The WosMan · 12-01-07, 08:00 PM

Since the whole sub business is hush hush and none of us except a chosen few who belong to this forum (who can't tell us what they know anyway) only know the truth, all we can do is speculate.

If I was a betting man, I would put my money on the US Navy when it came to the US vs Iran and their SSK. I am sure there are probably several SSN loitering around the Persian Gulf right now very closely keeping an eye on things and monitoring the Iranians, likely waiting for the attack order from the White House. It's just a matter of time.

fatty · 12-01-07, 09:59 PM

Abilities and proficiencies are all speculation to be certain, but there are facts that can give us hints as to the extents that Iran can (and should) go with their SSK capabilities.

Iran has access to arguably the most important waterway in the world at the moment. This waterway also happens to be fairly shallow with good geographical chokepoints and high-value targets without many places for them to go. Also known as SSK heaven.
Diesel submarine technology is proliferating: it is a relatively uncomplicated and cheap way to give a navy some considerable fangs. The U.S. Navy banging its head against the wall over its inability to detect and kill SSKs is not helping to slow the proliferation down, either.
Iran trades billions anually with China, a state making its own long strides in its subsurface program. And yes, they are trading weapons and technology.
For a lesser power risking a naval war with a major power, SSKs make sense. As I hope you will see in Mariano's forthcoming paper on the San Luis, SSKs are a terrific force equilizer.

So it makes sense for them to go all the way with SSKs. Whether they are radar invisible or whatever is obviously a huge stretch; that pointless boasting and sabre-rattling is just what Iran does. These are the rough beginnigs of a proprietary SSK program, and that is to be expected, but they'd be idiots not to invest heavily in diesel subs. Give them a couple of years and they will probably have made some interesting advancements.

12-01-07, 02:20 PM	#1
Herr_Pete Commodore Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Scotland, UK Posts: 623 Downloads: 102 Uploads: 0	Iranian Submarine love this iranian submarine that can't be detected by radar. bet ya the US find it in no time.

12-01-07, 05:00 PM	#6
Marcantilan Weps Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Posts: 374 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Don´t underestimate the capacity of a SSK operating in shallow waters, specially in the tricky (hot & cold currents) Persian Gulf waters. The new iranian boats are no joke for the US Navy. __________________ Ultima Ratio Regis

12-01-07, 06:58 PM	#8
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,130 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	quote skybird (An outdated type 209 has sunk 15 NATO vessels in southafrican exercises just weeks ago - already forgotten? And that was in the open ocean. It was reported that at no time it ever was detected while "killing" the complete NATO armada down to the last ship.) Sometimes with that said it is good for buisness if the outdated tech sold to 3rd world contries acctually makes kills if it does that in an exercise then they may want more which means more cash for you even though you know you can find it some exercises are rigged. There were reports german type 212's had to have noise makers fitted to thier sterns so other nato countries could atleast have half a chance. __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

12-01-07, 07:33 PM	#11
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,130 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	miky1up i do believe is on submarines however im not 100% sure. __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

12-01-07, 07:35 PM	#12
Linton Sea Lord Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,898 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Micky is a retired submariner who is now using his talents in the private sector . __________________ http://lintonsview.blogspot.com/

12-01-07, 02:31 PM	#3
Herr_Pete Commodore Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Scotland, UK Posts: 623 Downloads: 102 Uploads: 0	ahaha lol you know theres something not rite. probs tested it with there 'modern technology' no doubt several decades old so maybe they beat there own rubbish lol forgeting major powers like US and UK are miles ahead lol

12-01-07, 04:31 PM	#5
micky1up Captain Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: helensburgh Posts: 525 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	it took ten years to build so the plans are at least 15 years old man its outdated already and of course they have a proud submarine tradition having the equipment is one thing the quality of the crew thats a different matter. a study after the first gulf war conculded that if the roles had been reversed and the allies had the iraqis equipment and the iraqis thiers the allies still would have won

12-01-07, 07:30 PM	#10
PeriscopeDepth Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,894 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I'm curious...as I know there's at least one professional submariner that's already posted in this thread: do (or have) US submarines use methods to increase their emitted noise during exercises? I don't know if this is a classified area, but feel free not to answer if it is. PD

12-01-07, 08:00 PM	#14
The WosMan Watch Officer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: OH Posts: 332 Downloads: 88 Uploads: 0	Since the whole sub business is hush hush and none of us except a chosen few who belong to this forum (who can't tell us what they know anyway) only know the truth, all we can do is speculate. If I was a betting man, I would put my money on the US Navy when it came to the US vs Iran and their SSK. I am sure there are probably several SSN loitering around the Persian Gulf right now very closely keeping an eye on things and monitoring the Iranians, likely waiting for the attack order from the White House. It's just a matter of time.

12-01-07, 09:59 PM	#15
fatty The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 1,448 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Abilities and proficiencies are all speculation to be certain, but there are facts that can give us hints as to the extents that Iran can (and should) go with their SSK capabilities. Iran has access to arguably the most important waterway in the world at the moment. This waterway also happens to be fairly shallow with good geographical chokepoints and high-value targets without many places for them to go. Also known as SSK heaven. Diesel submarine technology is proliferating: it is a relatively uncomplicated and cheap way to give a navy some considerable fangs. The U.S. Navy banging its head against the wall over its inability to detect and kill SSKs is not helping to slow the proliferation down, either. Iran trades billions anually with China, a state making its own long strides in its subsurface program. And yes, they are trading weapons and technology. For a lesser power risking a naval war with a major power, SSKs make sense. As I hope you will see in Mariano's forthcoming paper on the San Luis, SSKs are a terrific force equilizer. So it makes sense for them to go all the way with SSKs. Whether they are radar invisible or whatever is obviously a huge stretch; that pointless boasting and sabre-rattling is just what Iran does. These are the rough beginnigs of a proprietary SSK program, and that is to be expected, but they'd be idiots not to invest heavily in diesel subs. Give them a couple of years and they will probably have made some interesting advancements.